Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion

I love this one. While not a phd in neuroscience like the author, “science” has long been close to my heart. And, my “day job”, often involves empirical science, being in technology. (Theory is heavy here, as well as abstract thinking very heavily, however, theory without empirical results is meaningless.) Moreso, my “real job”, that as a researcher and journeyperson in all things odd and human, distinctly involves high accuracy in plumbing the depths of the unknown in fields as disparate as human sciences and communication, and technology which humankind witnesses but can not yet explain.)

And this list aptly captures many core observations I have also made over the years, in an extremely solid format. Very impressive list.




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  1. griz 2 years ago

    Actually the fact that we need Scientific researchers to produce the data showing Science is treated like a religion . . . is one of the greatest proofs that to many it is just that!

    For years I’ve been pushing the far simpler notion that anything one does “religiously”, is a religion to them. Whether science, career, leisure, politics, drugs, family etc.

    It is entirely possible to enjoy the benefits of these things WITHOUT kicking in “religious process”. But we appeared hard-wired to be “worshiping” . . . something as our “master, lord, and saviour”. (Something that will prove us right[eous] and make us safe/saved).

    So why not assign this to the Highest Good conceivable or the “Spirit of Life” itself rather than all of these other little games of religion? This is not saying that Science or career, leisure or family are “bad” things. Only bad gods to be worshiping.

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      Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

      “It is entirely possible to enjoy the benefits of these things WITHOUT kicking in “religious process”. But we appeared hard-wired to be “worshiping” . . . something as our “master, lord, and saviour”. (Something that will prove us right[eous] and make us safe/saved).

      So why not assign this to the Highest Good conceivable or the “Spirit of Life” itself rather than all of these other little games of religion? This is not saying that Science or career, leisure or family are “bad” things. Only bad gods to be worshiping.”

      KA-BANG!

      That is a good one.

      There is a plan already implementing, not so long ago… I am listening to an incredible sermon now. Watching. “American Gods”.

      The problem. How to do what you say.

      How can more people be reached with Jesus, a man of whom it was said ‘he always spoke in parables (metaphors), and he never spoke without parables’?

      Was the ultimate solution places of explicit messaging and rituals? Even pigeons develop rituals. Whatever random behavior they were doing before researchers gave them food, they would learn to repeat… as if they were given food because of those random behaviors. Those random behaviors become rituals.

      Humans are a bit more complex then pigeons (sarcasm), but certainly adhere to the very same principles. Indeed, an oft quoted statement by a great scientist, Einstein, ‘insanity is repeating the same thing while getting the same bad result’.

      (Though, in reality, “insanity” is typically defined by modern social mores…)

      So, you take a guy who always speaks metaphorically, and you preach him metaphorically. Started out with books… now it is video games, virtual reality, movies, television.

      Purest way to express the gospels.

      Is it useless if people do not know? No. No, this is a ghost thing. When your heroes and heroines confirm to the model of Jesus because there are inspired people in the mix… they get the words and spiritual dna of Jesus. They accept his spirit, while believing they are simply admiring the hero from Die Hard, or the heroine from Orange is the New Black.

      This way Milton Erickson found useful, for hypnotic induction, metaphors, as it bypasses the conscious resistances in this manner.

      Another part of the jigsaw puzzle to become conscious of this, the works of Jospeh Campbell, aka, ‘the Hero with a Thousand Faces’.

      American entertainment media (including music), constantly outputs and rules the world, the message of Christ. Hidden and wrapped in metaphor, the virtues, the ups and downs, the necessary signature details are all there in our social concept of heroic. One very, very alien to, for instance, Bollywood, or anything Islam can produce. They do not understand heroics, because they do not understand virtue.

      (And when they do, such as Hong Kong, China, Japan, making good cinema and game storylines… it is, like most modern ideologies… influenced by Christianity. )

      This means there are countless who are Christians, including even “atheists”, but they just do not know it.

      That is my line. That is my strongly held view on the state of matters.

      The preliminaries before the Apocalypse happened in disguise and secret, and is still happening now.

      I am probably the only person saying this. Besides angels and saints in Heaven.

      Though, very many do understand our entertainment media which relies on metaphor, from rock music to television and movies, does promote “Western Culture”. What they tend to not understand is: this is planned, operational, and is effectively possessing huge swathes of the human population without their knowledge.

      But, does this mean instant freedom on the day of the apocalypse for all? No. They will see Christ and probably find immortality, which has always been required to withstand the fires of hell.

      Then, they repent, and are saved.

      A principle said in key places in Scripture, but one not very popular amongst many who, as you say, speak “christianese”.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        I”m coming across this rather lengthy response just as I’m headed out the door, but if I don’t respond I could lose track of where it is!

        A very astute observation imho, that huge swaths of the human population is being intentionally and effectively “processed” without their knowledge. At the core of Christ’s Spiritual paradigm is the “freedom” from this, followed by the growing awareness of the “principalities” that are seeking to do this surreptitious “processing”.

        The media may well be put to use in spreading this freedom; but it is best spread face-to-face, one person at a time. Jesus spoke to large groups in parable; but then afterwards he spoke very clearly and succinctly to the disciples that had made a 24/7 commitment to follow him.
        We can “carpet-bomb” Jesus on people and perhaps a few might be saved. But how many more will be turned off at what’s being dropped on their heads?

        Oops, gotta run.

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “The media may well be put to use in spreading this freedom; but it is best spread face-to-face, one person at a time. Jesus spoke to large groups in parable; but then afterwards he spoke very clearly and succinctly to the disciples that had made a 24/7 commitment to follow him.
        We can “carpet-bomb” Jesus on people and perhaps a few might be saved. But how many more will be turned off at what’s being dropped on their heads?”

        I really just see the goal as saving as many people as possible.

        I have good reason to state what I am stating, but if it is true, then this means a massive paradigm shift for those who are aware this is the end of the old age and the beginning of the new age. We find ourselves in the position of Jonah. Will we get angry and refuse to accept it, or will we be willing to accept such a plan?

        No doubt about what the verses do say, the knowledge of God will fill the earth as the waters cover the sea.

        Though, there are also very, very grim statements, declarations some of which are unavoidable… even if God does state that he will relent whatever evil he is planning towards an unjust civilization if the people repent.

        In all of this it is very clear that the possibility of dire consequences will be raised.

        No human beings are behind such a thing, if what I am stating is true. It is all going on, they are operating as actors in it. But, they do not understand what they are doing. The Spirit in them is controlling them, and the Spirit outside of them are controlling these events.

        As for me, as to what I do or do not do, I am part of a large organization, so I have limited freedom in such ways. You do not just go and run off and do rogue things in such organizations, you operate as a team under orders and extensive planning.

        For others, they have the appearance of freedom, but they are all acting as parts of a much larger body, even if they do not see it.

        I think those who see where they are, as parts of a much larger system, do so, for a reason.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        My goal is simply to do what is put before me, to the best of my ability and for God’s greater glory.
        It simplifies things; and also keeps me from being crushed from the weight of things I can see but that are not specifically set before me.

        I think they’re already is a knowledge of God in the Earth. Even those who stubbornly refused to seek Him by name are still yearning for something that is very in line with the recorded attributes of God. That is just part of why there is such a tremendous release when one finally realizes all of these things they sought are found in God.

        For me the “reason”, is God’s greater glory; as I currently understand and am growing in understanding. If any of the glory is for me then I’m not doing it right.

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “For me the “reason”, is God’s greater glory; as I currently understand and am growing in understanding. If any of the glory is for me then I’m not doing it right.”

        I am not sure what it is that is responding to.

        Maybe you are thinking that I am stating that I think people should have been asking questions about traditional doctrine that include eternal torture of most the population… because somehow I want glory for myself? Instead of having realized God is good, and people are bad, and these doctrines likely came from man, not God?

        To tell you the truth, I was motivated by love at some juncture.

        I am not sure what self-seeking glory has to do with it? As I am as anonymous as a person can be and genuinely only seek to maintain my current anonymous matter of life?

        I really do not see it having to do with anyone’s glory. I do not believe God seeks glory, but is glory, because God is love.

        I can certainly prove my arguments, if you doubt them, but questioning my motives I do not think is the way to ask.

        Though, question away, if you wish.

        I certainly am not pleased with how many have just slurped up truly terrible doctrine, without question.

        We are asked to believe God, not men and their lies.

        I certainly do have disappointment and disgust in those regards. It is not unlike the deep dislike I have for “Christian” mainstream fundamentalists who do all they can to ignore the actual teachings of Christ and promote the exact opposite of it.

        “My goal is simply to do what is put before me, to the best of my ability and for God’s greater glory.
        It simplifies things; and also keeps me from being crushed from the weight of things I can see but that are not specifically set before me.”

        I have no idea ‘what is set before you’.

        Elijah and Moses had quite a bit set before them. They did not turn to their own capabilities, but they had faith in God, and by faith they operated.

        Where does faith come from, but love.

        Sometimes what is set before is, is well beyond the capacity for what human beings can do by their own selves. Why else pray?

        One prays because need exceeds capability.

        I will never be impressed with anyone quoting to me doctrine, posing as Scripture.

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        second response: I guess you are just making a Jesus statement here, and not actually disagreeing with what I am stating.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        The “reply to” feature doesn’t always work right on my phone.
        Sometimes it attaches it to the wrong response.

        I’ve lost track of who I was responding to with it

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “The “reply to” feature doesn’t always work right on my phone.
        Sometimes it attaches it to the wrong response.

        I’ve lost track of who I was responding to with it”

        I really am not sure what to say, at this juncture.

        I think I presented, above, some very deep and extremely difficult to understand concepts, and your reaction was without thinking. Which is symptomatic of information overload.

        On one hand, you could be taking in everything I am saying and reasoning it out. Quite a puzzle to work on from that level. Been there, done that, many times. Though never literally with myself.

        It is a cipher, a code, some kind of reasoning behind the seeming madness, some hidden order in there. And that is the problem in these situations. Psychosis is relatively easy to deal with. But when there seems to be some kind of order way back in there, then it is not psychosis. Then, it is the tip of some really big iceberg. And we can understand these things on a deeper level then our conscious mind is able to handle.

        So, information overload.

        Weird stuff starts happening.

        Theories spin, but it is too complicated.

        If one looks at a very small part of a truly enormous picture, it can have the appearance of being madness, nonsense, chaos. But, if one scopes out far enough, the actual order is seen. The question here is, can human beings detect that underlying order without scoping out? I believe so, absolutely. But, consciously? So often what we understand “unconsciously”, we have no bridge to communicate to our conscious. No words, no language.

        I state all of this hypothetically. I do not believe you are this way, but there have been some odd things you have said.

        Hypothetically, you could be taking all I am saying and suspending belief on it, but for some reason also investigating it and trying to understand the possible order behind the seeming disorder.

        As I am simply telling the truth, I know people can tell that. But, I also know what it is like to be told things that are too big for immediate comprehension.

        I have to admit, I want to believe this is the case on some level. So, this disturbs me. To actually find a real, normal human being and interact with them! That would be amazing. And what purpose could they have here, but some “greater” purpose, then just some random stranger. Maybe they are investigating something on someone else’s behalf?

        How exciting.

        But, of course, I must dismiss all of this as just that. As I am so full of faults, and biases, whenever I see anything dreadful I wish to believe, my best reaction is to try and doubt it and change my preferences. Perhaps.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        I try to honor every response. But sometimes there’s just too much going on. And if what I’m responding to is long sometimes I can start a reply in Kentucky, add to it in Michigan, and finish it off on the way to Quebec!

        I find there’s a lot of un-complicating of issues by cutting right to the core spirit motivating it. I don’t know if this is what you call “scoping out”. There are spiritual gifts that can make this a very natural sub-conscious process even in the very young. With age one learns to move it to the conscious level. So I do my best (time pending!) to listen both to your words and the spirit behind them. And a lot of times I will just let you run with something you are trying to say. If I don’t have an intelligent response to it, I will as you say, just take on on faith that it was something that needed to be said and await clarification.

        But with someone else who is spiritually inclined I can sometimes seem to skip steps and cut right to a chase that may not be readily apparent.
        Or sometimes I’m just tired and full of shit! I am fully capable of both!

        But most who have known me online and then met me in real life will attest that I value personal integrity. Who I am here is who I am in person. (Well, maybe goofier in person where I can read the visual cues and be a bit riskier in what I say!)

        For now though, I’m just really burned out. A quick round-trip to Eastern Canada and a 3-day round-trip to Georgia and back have really done me in. I’ve just had a nice massage, and am working my way through a fabulous steak and a pitcher of un-watery Canadian beer in a cozy pub. So take that into account with my responses for the next few hours!

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        This is fine, I have set aside my hypothetical glasses of yesterday, though I do have to admit, how fine it would be if some human spy came peering into me and these things.

        A favorite song of mine now even for a few years, Seven Devils Around Me. As necessitates in such strange circumstances, I actually emotionally and mentally switch out the word “devils” with “angels”.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QdpCJIyyi4

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        Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        griz: The“replyto”featuredoesn’talwaysworkrightonmyphone.Sometimesitattachesittothewrongresponse.

        I’velosttrackofwhoIwasrespondingtowithit

        I think, on reflection, you had a two pronged response to my statements, that a. I believe Christ is being preached via modern fiction effectively secretly to the world in an especifially effective means via metaphor… and, b., that I believe there is a very strong chance everyone is saved in the end as a Jonah Nineveh sort of situation.

        Your response was, a., you just try and tackle what is put before you, and, b., you do not seek your own glory but only the glory of the father.

        Which implies my statements are a., based on me attempting tackling matters not placed before me. And, b., that I must, therefore, be motivated in both things by the desire to seek my own glory.

        Both of which certainly would be likely true if I came up with these ideas on my own.

        Not necessarily so, but certainly a possibility.

        In my case, I think if I thought either case of what someone was saying, I would simply state to them these conclusions in a direct manner. That is, “I think these things you state are examples of you far over reaching your responsibilities and driven by a lust of glory for your self”.

        This method of directness allows them a chance to answer that accusation an so possibly correct it. As first impressions I certainly do not always find correct. And I always believe in giving people a chance to explain their position, if I am leaning towards a negative judgment like that.

        Such as I have been trying to do here, with this response of yours. I have a further concern you have been very evasive, claiming you make instant, inerrant core level judgments based on mystical knowledge which sees the truth of the spirit of what anyone is saying. And that before this, you responded to my questions on your harsh response that you do not even recall what you were responding to (though also inerrant due to a spiritual capability even day 1 Christians have.)

        These things said, sure, I am trying to get a read on you. I just want to understand, again, if my read here is correct.

        If so, you could be right! What a great error for me to be educated on. I then would not have come to these conclusions from God, but entirely from my own imagimation! And how fatal would such a secret lust for personal glory be?! Such a realization could save my soul and life!

        But, yes, if wrong, then, I am mistaken deeply about you. This matters deeply to me because you engage a powerful level of trust from me. If I trusted the wrong person at such a level, severe harm could result.

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  2. eric 2 years ago

    I mean, the top rated comment of that article sums it up well…

    1- The anthropic principle is that the universe seems just right for humans to have evolved in. Which is exactly what it would look like to any evolved species as evolution is the principle that the fittest, the best suited to their environment, survive. If the universe was not suited to life, we would not be here to know it.

    2- Science tends to cast out religion, certainly, because science deals with reality on a certain set of epistemological standards. Religion, and bad science, fails to meet those standards and so is disregarded. Why would scientists want to waste their time constantly going over the same arguments? If a theory has been proven wrong, or so unfounded that it should not have been suggested, of course they choose to ignore it.

    3- Science likes to tear down its own saints. Look at Watson and Crick being vilified for being mean to Franklin. This point has little to do with science and more about the human love of hero worship.

    4- Science makes up stories? Yes, we call them theories. These stories should be closely fitted to the known facts, and be testable against future findings.

    5- Science has a priesthood that should not be questioned? Have you been to a scientific conference? The question and answer sessions make gladiatorial combat look serene as each scientist tries to pull apart each others theories.

    6- Science is based on theories and paradigms. If a theory works better at explaining the universe it can take some, usually older, scientists a long time to accept the novel theory. That is a human failing, not scientific. Once a new theory has been shown to better explain things you can bet that the upcoming researchers will explore that instead.

    7- Science does not bend to social will; some governing bodies will. The scientific method is the scientific method. In your point about the classification of homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder you fail to say what the definition of psychiatric disorder was at the time. If it included a phrase such as ‘socially unacceptable behaviour’ then, by that definition homosexuality was a disorder as it met the criteria of being socially unacceptable. But that’s not a scientific change, that is societal. As a side point, most definitions of insanity have to reference societal norms because otherwise religion would fall well within the remit of madness.

    8- Most of science is very well founded. Quantum theory is founded on data so precise it boggles the mind. Some theories still await testing, but that’s why science is still active.

    9- If you find you are doing science based on faith, you are doing it wrong. You might blunder into evidence in support of your theory but it will be accidental.

    I know some of these arguments might have the look of the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy, but really the examples put up by the author were well outside the usual definition of science.

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      Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

      “I know some of these arguments might have the look of the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy, but really the examples put up by the author were well outside the usual definition of science.”

      Eric, I think the author has some good points, and you have some good points as well. I can see alternatives as true in all these points. I believe your response does come off a little as if you are trying to protect the precious ears of dumb laypeople who do not know anything… as if you have just come from a war.

      You state that “does not fit the usual definition of science”, but people are imperfect vessels, and practice very often does not fit usual definitions. I can not tell you how far “religion” tends to be, for instance, from usual definitions. Which comedians seem to get, but so often many others do not.

      It is to the most absurd degree, in fact.

      So, I am critical of mainstream ‘just about anything’, especially in regards to big mainstreams like science and religion.

      I look for off road information. And, I can certainly say that the greats anywhere do.

      Where we are partisan, we know there is a problem.

      These things said, I do work in a field that requires empirical use of scientific principles, one where there is much theory, much talk, much esteem from much talk, but very often wrong information — computer security research.

      It is a practical field where theory and abstract thinking is heavily required, but results are the ultimate measure. So, it is comforting in this way. It is not as it is presented on television.

      What we do is look for exceptional conditions which are exploitable. This very often means that we reverse engineer very complex software, and find some flaw in the design of it which we can utilize in a manner which the developers did not intend.

      Are there vulnerabilities in the way both science and religion are practiced today? Absolutely.

      I might here add that very often we are told that there can be no vulnerabilities in software, where we look. That it is impossible to exploit. These sorts of statements claiming perfection have no meaning to us.

      IN fact, they can attract us, as we know the mindset which is required is to always assume there is vulnerability, somewhere. One major caveat here, of course, is typical PR. Though, that very same PR often works in our favor. When we find security vulnerabilities in software which is highly touted as secure, we get major media exposure. (Been there, done that, and worked with many of the tops names who also have done so.)

      Why is it useful to find vulnerabilities which one can exploit? Because it can give you incredible power, empirically. Though, I do not do that, it is something which is certainly fun to hold. Like holding a machine gun that really works, or a suppressed pistol you can shoot at the range. You do not use it live, but you could.

      The exploits we present are themselves as astounding magic tricks. Typically, we show them to audiences, including the media, in order to prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the reality of our vulnerabilities.

      And, reality? This is all made cartoonish in fictional media, and typically, beyond some headlines that buzz by, this is all laypeople know about the field. Script kiddies who merely abuse our work tend to get all the attention and have all the ego.

      Point being that this field remains highly arcane and difficult to penetrate.

      Likewise is it that in the fields of science and “religion”, there are those who exploit vulnerabilities for great power, but the world does not know of them.

      Looking for what everyone else already tramples down, in other words, is not where the treasure is, but finding an off road, away from the wide road, is the goal.

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      Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

      Oh, and I forgot, but second response anyway, as different topic:

      “”9- If you find you are doing science based on faith, you are doing it wrong. You might blunder into evidence in support of your theory but it will be accidental.”

      This has never been the way “religion” works, if by “faith” you mean Christianity, and ultimately, you must, as Christianity is The “Religion” that teaches “faith” as “the way”. It has nothing to do with this definition you are using here, though this definition is often used by critics… and since it being twisted into this form, even by some supposed “believers”.

      Many try and correct this error, but it seems too useful for others.

      I am not sure, this is worthwhile for a separate post entirely, though, for whatever reason, those who buy into this bizarre definition can’t ever seem to consider that it is incorrect even when believers tell them it is incorrect.

      Notice I use the term “believer” and I use the term “buy in”.

      This is because there is faith in science, if there is confidence. An accurate empirical scientist, for instance, attempts to be as accurate in their confidence as possible. Confidence is one of several english words which is equivalent to the word faith. Faith, trust, confidence, belief….

      It is true, many believe many things without evidence. But, many believe many things with evidence. In fact, we all believe countless things on the basis of evidence.

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