Or are all problems ultimately something man will struggle with forever? (At least in this iteration)




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  1. Fletch 2 years ago

    NO

    not with the bipartisanship that exists.

    and the stubborn people who just don’t get the big picture

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    • Author
      Jear77 2 years ago

      @Fletch I’m talking bigger stuff
      poverty
      disease (ANY disease)
      Racism/ Ethicism (based around a person’s ethnicity not race)/ sexism
      Hunger (we GROW enough food for the world… why can’t we get it to the right people?)

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      • Fletch 2 years ago

        @jear77

        COULD be solved, yes.

        NEVER happen in our lifetime

        too many people with too much power.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        These problems arise from spiritual deficiency.

        Natural Science only has traction on natural issues. Supernatural issues require Supernatural resolution.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz We grow enough food, clothing (well clothing itself isn’t grown, stuff like cotton is, and wool from sheep, but you get the point)… so much so we actually pay farmers to NOT sell it. What if instead the governments of the world bought it and distributed it to the needy in a form they could use?

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        We get distracted from the goal by things like greed, power, pursuit of happiness and how difficult the task may prove.

        Every generation. so we are back to the endemic thing that we can’t seem to do anything about by our own efforts.

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  2. griz 2 years ago

    Purely physical issues? Given enough time, yes. For curiosity and resolution are in our nature.

    Provided the destruction that is also in our nature doesn’t triumph first!

    Which brings up interesting spiritual issues; which will not be resolved by solutions that cannot transcend the purely physical.

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    • Author
      Jear77 2 years ago

      @griz Solved as in once and for all, never to show itself again. We can eradicate it for this generation…

      MAYBE…

      BUT it will return next generation

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Aye. Something endemic to the species.

        But every generation there are also those with the drive to change it and who teach their children this.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz That’s not solving. It’s a band-aid solution. Why not look for something that will make the measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. extinct instead of vaccinating every lifetime?

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Some things may be in the same category as never having to blow your nose again by cutting it off!

        And paving over all the bumps most certainly has a higher cost than the craver of ease and convenience ever envisions.

        Consider also that our presence here to keep resolving these issues, might be the proper solution?

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz It’s my opinion that we should try our best even against insurmountable odds. At least maybe we can make the lives better of those we help. It’s like the homeless problem. The solution is amazingly simple: give them homes. But people are opposed due to NIMBY – not in my back yard

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Any thoughts on why people don’t want it in their neighborhood?

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz crime. They might think the people in such situations are losers. Fear of them (the homeless) influencing their kids, particularly if they’re homeless because of a controversial reason (for instance they were thrown out by their own parents due to being gay, stealing for drugs, or somesuch)

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Is there reason to think such people will be at a higher risk of proving systemically dysfunctional within the community that everyone else has bought into (likely at great cost), and worked so hard to establish?

        There will be some who are humbly grateful for the hand up ( not to mention the hand-out!) and work to respect the establish standard: pay their taxes, keep their place and Community areas neat, participate with/respect their neighbors.

        But what is the precident towards the opposite? Is there perhaps justification for the concern?

        (Which is not saying it could not be done in some form. But first we may need to address the systemic toxin of entitlement thinking)

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz on the whole, the experiment where it’s been done has been a resounding success. If successful one place, why not another?

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Where has it worked?
        Under what parameters?
        For how long?

        As I have said, some can be grateful for the hand up and use it to great effect.

        But many more use it to coast, to take advantage, to be lazy or irresponsible.

        So back to my original question. Do you think people have a cause to be wary of giving away free housing in their neighborhood?

        How do you discern between those who will use it appreciatively; versus those who will abused it . . . and those who grant it to them (entitlement thinking)?

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz you don’t get my point, if you’re homeless (even if it’s your choice) it’s IMPOSSIBLE to misuse/ abuse, provided you don’t do stupid things like destroy it purposely. Why? It’s a gift for one purpose: to get the individual off the streets!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        One would have to be quite a stranger to Human Nature to think it impossible for people to take advantage of such a situation. (It’s not just possible, it’s likely. I’d put money on it and win more often than I would lose!)

        Throwing physical “stuff” (whether houses or money) at deep-rooted Social and personal problems, rarely makes things better.
        More often than not it just makes things worse in the long run.

        Perhaps this is what people do not want in their backyard?

        And on a personal note we need to learn how to guard against entitlement thinking. Our society pushes it on us at an early age.
        If I only had a house, without the effort or process, I would be happy.
        If I only won the lottery, everything would be okay..
        If I only had manifests spiritual perfection and eternal life without process or effort I would be happy.

        And then these things are confabulated Intuit being some sort of trespass against us if it is not so.
        And awards are handed out just for breathing.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz The city where this took place took this into account. It’s a program that people can use indefinitely. They don’t care (once again so long as the property isn’t destroyed). The point is to get people off the streets, nothing more, nothing less. If the program accomplishes this, it is a success.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        I wonder if more communities would welcome it if it went a bit further towards educating people in sustainable and responsible Community involvement so they didn’t fall into freeloader lifestyles?

        It would acknowledge that some had gone through effort and process to get to where they are; and those who had been gifted it had obligation to use what was graciously awarded them, wisely.

        Do you remember where this experiment happened? I would like to read up on it.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz it’s in utah. There are controversies surrounding the program (namely by, as you said, not helping people reach their full potential). But the question is this: What if someone CAN’T reach their full potential in this day and age? What if they’re too damaged, too bad off, until new technologies exist, until new programs that address their specific needs exist? I know you say that life as you like to call it is a panacea… yet some of the people who are supposedly the best at reaching it are in life’s worse situations: there’s a minister who gave up everything (perfectly able to work, yet refuses to do so to minister to the homeless) to do so. That is crazy. WORK to be able to support yourself and your family (I don’t know if he has or not) is WAY more important than reaching the lost! There have been several articles about him. There’s other people who end up being missionaries in 3rd world countries. But at day’s end they can’t REALLY help the people. They only co-exist in misery

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        What is “full potential”?
        It’s somewhat less than “absolute perfection”. But it is almost always far more then we think or have currently achieved.

        Rarely, it may be wise to say “You’re reaching too high”. But it is far more common to have to coax people on and say, “You’re not reaching high enough!”.
        As a species we have a real penchant for settling for the mundane or the easy: just following the crowd — or the path of least resistance (hello, lemmings!)

        But hiding behind excuses as to why we can’t be any better, eats up all the energy we could use to be better! Better than we currently are.

        I am not a big fan of “life past” . . . being the reason why we can’t get on with life more abundantly today.
        My past (which is hairier than most), is not and will not be a note excusing me from life, and all that it can be!

        How can we say that Pastor has not reached his fullest potential as a part of the species: perhaps in ways we cannot put dollars and cents on? He may positively affect dozens hundreds or even thousands of lives, to several generations: which never would have happened had he settled for being a mundane pursuer of objects and lifestyles.

        The problem is we are trying to make sense of things eternal and infinite, through temporary and finite reasoning that can rarely escape the surging of our feelings in this moment.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz I happen to remember the motto “Money makes the world go around.” While there are some things in principle in the book “The science of getting rich” are utter nonsense (it say something along the lines that there’s enough materials in the world for EVERY family on the planet to have a mansion the size of the White House– [because material comes from the immaterial] and extrapolating from that it also would mean that it would be impossible to cause a species to become extinct) BUUTT having said that it also says a good many RIGHT things: instead of talking about people being poor, one should ALWAYS talk about people being better off, wealthier, having their needs met more successfully

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Every religion has its Bible!

        And Mammon ( materialism and wealth) has perhaps more than its fair share!

        There’s nothing wrong with having and pursuing these things. Problems arise when they become our Prime motivator and drive; the Lord whose dictates we always bow to.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @The point is this: Instead of SEEING people as poor, the idea is to see them as well off as they can be, instead of seeing someone on the streets or in 3rd world country as being a poor sap,talk about them as if they’re materially wealthy already, and talk about them as if they have what they need. This method of discussion allows a person to say “be warm and fed” and without doing anything about their needs puts them in mind the of the person saying these things by giving them a handout (or even a leg up) you’re doing them a disservice. Far better to think (and act as if they already have) than act as if they have nothing — even if that’s more or less the reality of the situation

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        I really have no response for that. To me it just seems convoluted.

        Someone can be in need without being a poor sap; and there are forms of neediness that don’t involve material things.

        I look to share the things that have being shared with me in abundance. And that can be done without demeaning or categorizing the person.

        Plus I find the Spirit gives significant discernment on the reason for the encounter. Instances of accidentally insulting or diservicing the person are rare.
        I find that if you are just willing to spend some time with them and listen they will tell you what they need in the proper time, and in the proper measure.

        Even if they’re not aware they are doing it.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz what if part of the “well off” includes all things? Mental, physical, spiritual, social, emotional, and every other aspect not named? So talking about them (and to them) as if they’re where they need to be is a way of empowering them to do what they need!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        In one sense everyone is right where they are because they choose to be (or remain) there.

        And you cannot change that with your Band-Aids of feelings even if you want to.

        But there is a way of living in the Spirit, where you can be exactly the right nudge, shoulder to lean on, ministering Spirit, or Word of Wisdom that someone needs. The exact right thing, in the exact right measure.

        I am speaking of communion and participation one with another. It sounds like what you are proposing is more of isolation and dis-involvement with those around you.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz No, but maybe you can get them to change for themselves. There’s joke that goes like this: a person passing by a homeless person takes out money (or pretends to do so) and goes through the act of putting it into the person’s cup (whether the hand was empty or not). The homeless person is annoyed, saying “Hey, you didn’t leave anything in there.” The person who pretended to give the homeless person money said “I gave you something much more valuable than the money. I gave you *hope!*”

        Maybe talking about (and to) a person in need can do much the same thing! Ever think of that?

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Of course you talk to them! That’s part of interaction and participation. And it is in this, that you accept them as they are and learn of any needs you might have been able (sent there?) to address.

        Giving others “hope” in the way that joke suggests is more just the hope that you don’t have to exert yourself too much just to walk away with a good feeling! (which is more of dis-association and rejection).

        This is the insult of just throwing some money or surface-kind words at them and walking away feeling like you have done something good.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz but giving a person a fish, he eats for a day, letting him learn on his own how to fish, he eats for his entire life!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Agreed.
        But if the person starves before they can fashion a rod or net, where’s the wisdom?

        Especially in a world where so few people are willing to help teach others how to fashion rods and nets.

        And there remain ways to help people, without enabling addiction.
        But it takes several things that seem rare beyond measure in our current society.
        Wisdom (or even common sense), genuine concern for others (vs just concern for our own feelings — participation vs isolation), time and effort (we probably have just not invented enough time-and-labor-saving devices yet!) :tease:

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz Maybe there’s wisdom in the words of scrooge, what he says about the poor, and places to go get help. If they can’t find it (or are too stubborn to go), it’s on them, not on me.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        To a point, yes. We don’t need to allow ourselves to be ‘taken hostage’ by others’ laziness or apathy.

        But in the context of the Scrooge tale, he was using this proclamation from a point of folly, as an excuse to isolate from the society and service just his own greed . . . and he learned the error of his ways unto amending them back to “participation” at the story’s conclusion!

        (“Fishing Tip” — a lot of the potential folly in charity is side-stepped if one can learn to rightly discern between doing it for the other’s sake and doing it for the sake of just their own feelings).

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        @griz i have neither the time nor the energy to go giving money away when I can’t even afford a place to live.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Jear77
        Charity is housed in the spirit — not the pocket-book!

        (See the story of the poor widow and her 2-bits)

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  3. zuul 2 years ago

    Some problems can be solved some cannot, however some problems that cannot be solved can be eliminated.

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  4. 2Thrash 2 years ago

    I’m on the pessimistic can’t be solved side. But I’ve only a little data to draw on.

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  5. BelleMadre 2 years ago

    i imagine there are ideas for solutions for every problem, but i dont imagine they will all work.
    that is vague but its the best ive got right now

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