“Whenever I look at the other animals and realize that whatever they do is blameless and they can’t do wrong, I envy them the dignity of their estate, its purity and its loftiness, and recognise that the Moral Sense is a thoroughly disastrous thing”- Mark Twain




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  1. Jear77 1 week ago

    There are several thoughts going on here.

    The first is whether or not we have a coherent moral compass. The problem with that concept is that we are only able to act upon our limited knowledge, our survival instinct, and what we feel to be right. Case in point: if any one of us were put into the movie universe of the “Saw” franchise. And before you dismiss it as mere fiction, if someone can dream it up, another twisted individual can make it reality to enact revenge, make a point, or cause deliberate suffering to random people. I forget the name of the movie, but there was a horror film some years ago where a group of miners/ splunkers were trapped and instead of staying put, the film’s antagonist killed every one of the people trapped with him to be able to survive.

    Another issue is whether or not animals have morality. And to that question, I would say the most of the time they act according to instinct. Having said that, you have cases where animals will go out of their way to either ignore their instinct or use it to act in ways that are atypical. Case in point when animals protect human children – or raise it when typically the animal would see a helpless child and think “food”

    A third issue is in normal circumstances whether or not we would resort to desperate measures – if we’re well fed, have adequate housing, an awesome support system, money to spare, would (physically and mentally) healthy individuals act wrongly? It depends on one’s definition of wrong. There are some categories of what society deems to be wrong that i scratch my head at, like the concept of infidelity. If there were no such things as unwanted pregnancy, STDs, why would it be a problem? Maybe in the future, when such can be completely eliminated, and either side is free to sleep with whomever, we won’t need to be jealous over who’s sleeping witb whom. And then there’s things that society views as perfectly normal, causing no problems, that i find as abhorrent, such as deliberate waste of something that is perfectly good.

    I don’t think it possible for thinking creatures such as we to have no moral compass. But it would be different. It would probably boil down to the hedonist’s credo: get (and give) as much pleasure as possible: be that in sex, in terms of food, taking what we wanted (no sense of personal ownership or responsibility). Overall, such a mindset would be a bad thing for both individuals and society as a whole.

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      Scarlett2 1 week ago

      @Jear77 do you think we essentially do everything out of our own self interest, though?

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      • Jear77 7 days ago

        @Scarlett2 to some extent… even if it’s not at a conscious level. Even a temporary sacrifice can be chalked up to “i’ll be able to get more of (fill in the blank) later by doing this now”

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  2. five2one 1 week ago

    There is no wrong in love.

    I think, if we feel outside of that, something is wrong.

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      Scarlett2 1 week ago

      @five2one I question about one’s capacity for love if it is not reciprocated, though. I think we humans would like to believe we are mostly loving creatures, but I think it is an energy that must move between living things, and not one sided. What do you think?

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      • five2one 7 days ago

        @Scarlett2 Yes, of course, it is the force of life.

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      • Tits McGee 6 days ago

        @Scarlett2 you don’t have to be loved, to love.

        I love my dogs more than just about anything (or anyone for that matter) yet what do they feel towards me?

        It’s nice to be loved by another human, but not necessary.

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  3. Mark Twain is completely wrong.

    https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/morality_animals

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