Hate doesn’t seem to need reasons or care about them, so this is probably an exercise in futility, but alot of human existence has to do with weathering futility, so To Whom This May Concern:
click the damn link
https://theconversation.com/3-myths-about-the-poor-that-republicans-are-using-to-support-slashing-us-safety-net-89048




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  1. Gina 8 months ago

    I don’t know if it’s so much that they don’t care about poor people, they just care about themselves more. The politicians saying these things have health insurance for life, make a good living, and the majority of them when they leave politics, get a huge book deal or become a talking head on TV. They are part of the 1%, so they are making sure the system is set up in their favor to line their greedy pockets.

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  2. spitfire3dc 8 months ago

    I don’t think it is hate, for hate’s sake. One would have to like hate to want to do something for it. It’s a contradiction in terms.

    So there has to be concerns, although legitimacy would be very dependent on whatever morality, or lack thereof, by specific individual.

    Do I hate poor people? No. Do I love them? In all honesty I cannot say yes, so maybe the question might be; why don’t I love them? Probably because I feel/believe that they don’t love me.

    I wrestle with charity. I’m not ever looking for recognition, but I would like to experience genuine appreciation if warranted. My wife and I have been active in raising money for the homeless in the last few years. We recognize the need but there is something that troubles me to a degree. I don’t see how the money we raise is actually used. For all I know it could be mismanaged by the charitable organization or used for purposes for which I have no intention of supporting. The other thing is that if I was given support; I think I would find ways of expressing appreciation to those participating in the support…even just to let us know we are providing them with our intentional support.

    Now, this may sound like an idiotic selfish need to want to be recognized. It isn’t. It is more of a call to allow people who get help, to spiral the cycle back in an effort to reinforce a sense of value for those who give and get.

    A few years ago I dropped off a Christmas hamper at a needy family’s home. I had to dodge around stacks of empty beer bottles. The judgemental prick in me was piqued. Sure, maybe they had been collecting empties out of the trash to get some cash. It’s possible.

    I don’t hate poor people that have to deal with extenuating circumstances that prevent their ability to make things better for themselves, but I really don’t like people, poor or affluent, that just sit back and wait for a hand out. Maybe that is the foundation that fuels a lack of liking, versus a hatred. It sounds like a legitimate rationalization to me.

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    • Author
      luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

      @Spitfire3dC
      In the article I posted it talks about the deserving poor & what you experienced at the beer bottle hoarders home as called the undeserving poor. The deserving poor, including the sick, the elderly, & children will often suffer a stigma due to the bottle hoarder, even though their numbers far outweigh the so called undeserving poor.

      As for charity for the homeless, if it’s in your town, why not cut out the middleman. You’ll know for sure where or how your dough is spent. Buy them some food to give them. They’ll thank you.

      I posted a movie earlier and there’s a part were they talk about how they found out the guy who goes through all their garbage does so because he doesn’t want welfare, so they all give him jobs watering their lawns. The main point of that scene is that they didn’t do it before because the neighbors wouldn’t talk to each other, so they wouldn’t help each other.

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      • spitfire3dc 8 months ago

        @luftballooneyegouge Fair points

        Regrading cutting out the middleman. I work through a charity that can give us a bigger bang for our buck. We spent a bit of time finding someone we could trust, that had the right strategy and seemed to be effective in the delivery of a set of services. You can’t do that when trying to identify issues with specific people.

        We decided on a charity that gives people who had the rug pulled out from under them and gives them a chance to re-orient towards getting back on their own feet. They are supported with housing for a finite time and hopefully they use the breather to get re-organized.

        There is a nice feeling of community within this specific organization. It focuses on our community, by our community. Can’t fix everybody’s problem but just maybe you can help a few.

        I agree with you. There are a lot of deserving poor out there. Can’t let the non deserving influence a sense to contribute.

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    • griz 8 months ago

      @Spitfire3dC
      We cannot overlook that despite the assurances that programs like welfare are not being misused . . . Human nature is to take the easiest path that expends the least energy: and that there ARE people out there both actively and “passively” misusing the social safety net.
      (The “active” being those who set out to intentionally “play the system” like the young mothers having babies so they can get a bigger welfare check: and the “passive” being those who simply grow accustomed to being on welfare and soon find themselves psychologically unable to shoulder the burden of work).

      The problem is, that they exist — despite assurances they don’t. It seems that for everyone who uses social assistance as it was intended . . . there is one or even a couple trying to “play the system” — or who have become “addicted” to it and cannot be weaned off it.

      Both sides are painting a picture with hyperbole and partial-truth — and then trying to take that picture as a valid representation of reality.

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        @griz
        Did you look at my link? The system isn’t perfect…….really?

        My take, if it keeps desperate people off the street, good.
        If it keeps lazy people off the street & out of my way, good.
        If it keeps people prone to addiction off of the street, good.

        If government assistance is a horrible thing to get hooked on, then why aren’t you concerned that you can’t ween yourself off of Canadian Health Care y’singlepayer junkie?

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      • griz 8 months ago

        @luftballooneyegouge
        Yes, I did! But that was 2,000 km ago. So I’ll have to go back and see if I can identify the species of bee in your bonnet!

        The system isn’t perfect — because people aren’t perfect!
        But a system that leaves as few behind as possible, and doesn’t leave someone behind just because of how much money they make, does seem a “less-imperfect” product!

        BTW, just one benefit of a single-payer system is seen in the news story “The Most Expensive Drug in the World”. (I think that will google). It comes out of the US pharmaceutical companies, who are used to a multiple-payer system to get it covered for just the select few.
        But when it was marketed in a single-payer system (Belgium iirc), they were shocked at the cost and wouldn’t cover it. It was a drug that treated symptoms of a rare childhood illness that was always fatal, so these Belgium parents were beside themselves.

        Suddenly “advocates” and “publicity groups” appeared at their door, and undertook a campaign of shaming the government healthcare into covering it. It was later discovered, that these “advocates” were employed by the very company offering the drug.
        And investigation was called for (not going to happen in a multi-payer system) and it was discovered that the whithering “research costs” the pharmaceutical company claimed . . . had mostly happened in Universities where public money paid for them.

        An expert in the field factored this in, and discovered a whopping profit could still be realized by offering the drug at 1/200th of the cost, factoring in that they company hadn’t really put much of it’s own money into research.

        Yes, they still deserved to profit from their “development” work — but not from the work done by others, and paid for by others!

        One doesn’t have to “make a killing” to save a child. And it took a single-payer healthcare system to reveal not only this . . . but the shameful and greedy tactics that have flourished in a multi-payer system where everyone keeps their books closed to each other and this skulduggery is never noticed.

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        @griz
        There’s all kinds of horrid stories of how bigfat pharma uses orphans & underprivileged kids to experiment on. I’ll put in a huge search link for

        aids drugs on orphans (It might ruin your day)

        https://www.google.com/search?q=aids+drugs+on+orphans&rlz=1C1CHMB_enUS339US339&oq=aids+drugs+on+orphans&aqs=chrome..69i57.7137j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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      • griz 8 months ago

        @luftballooneyegouge
        It doesn’t ruin my day or surprise me; but it does make me very sad for our species. And I cannot get all self-righteous on them either, because they are simply exercise an aspect of human nature that we all have. We have exercised and benefited from it in the past, given the right stimulus could exercise it in the present, and most assuredly will see it exercised in the future.

        Consider the Pony Express, which became the US Postal Service. It specifically targeted young, often poorly fed orphan boys, because they were light and nobody would miss them if they died on the perilous journey. (And more concern was usually given over the US mail that was lost, than the orphan!)

        And this is only magnified when money is at stake. I understand the benefits of capitalism and a healthy economy. But we have passed the point where we have given up our morals and perhaps even our humanity for the sake of money.

        Case-in-point: the POTUS. His score on these areas is publically affirmed to be lower than a snake’s belly. But a common defense is “well look how good the stock market is doing!”.

        For now at least, the money is rolling in.
        But the morals and ethics have rolled away and not been seen in a while now. And no nation can “be great” . . . without them.

        (BTW, I see in that story that other nations have done likewise — and that despite not having the protection of a loving advocate, some of the orphans are actually better for the treatment. I’m not trying to wax Machiavelli here: just pointing out if a parent or guardian advocated for an experimental treatment for their child, there would much less of an issue here. I try to see beyond just what might give me something to rage against.
        Plus years from now when it becomes common knowledge, those who endured can claim million-dollar judgements in class-action suits! Hey, even this drives the economy!)

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        @griz
        Oh I GET IT!
        CANADIAN BACON IS ORPHANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Sure as shit ain’t bacon.

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      • griz 8 months ago

        @luftballooneyegouge
        Remember, our bacon is loin. Yours is belly.

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        @griz
        (pouty style) I’ll reememmmber….

        whisper mode when yer not lookin(it’s orphan’s loin)
        :sad:

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        Our bacon comes from the North Pole and is made out of steroidal Dragons that are farmed by Santa & his horde of Warrior Keeblers!

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      • griz 8 months ago

        @luftballooneyegouge
        Hmm.
        Not a lot of hollow trees there for those Keebler elves to live in. Maybe ‘Nick has a climate-controlled “habitat” (zoo) for his hoards?

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      • Author
        luftballooneyegouge 8 months ago

        @griz
        Cartoon trees are fine in any climate.

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  3. griz 8 months ago

    I think @Gina hit the nail on the head. One can only call it “hate” if one holds that simply caring about yourself more means you hate everyone else. While this might make a fair philosophical or spiritual discussion, in our current reality we would have to own that by this standard we ourselves are “haters” . . . because there’s hardly a person who breathes who isn’t more interested and invested in their own welfare than that of others.

    At times the hyperbole is a little TOO ripe: where everyone who who hinders you (by not assisting you?) is “a hater”.

    In a way, it’s disconcerting to see the US retreating into “tribal warfare” . . . and to see it escalating by the increased zeal to demonize “the other tribe”: as prelude to more blatant overt war and even the “justified” committing of atrocities in the name of “what is right”. (An “ethnic cleansing” of the lower and middle classes?)

    There’s a huge disconnect: and be cautioned that the loud-and-clear message being sent to the world is that the American philosophy and/or dream doesn’t work. Rampant capitalism and putting the individual over the society is tearing America apart.
    It’s actually providing all the positive PR for socialism that even communism can bear without laughing themselves into the hospital (where I hear, they are cared for regardless of how much money they have?).

    So does America work? Or is it time to abandon the dream for a more pragmatic reality? But don’t take too long. The US is falling farther and farther behind on the world stage — remembering that the health of the stock market is really no measure of the health of the people within the society that are turning the cogs.
    If they fail, the rich empires and monster corporations are also going to fail.

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    • Gina 8 months ago

      @griz As John F Kennedy once said,

      “If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.”

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      • griz 8 months ago

        @Gina
        It’s no wonder he had to be silenced. He made too much sense.

        One of the precepts (an axiom perhaps?) of being true freedom, is that it creates a profound appreciation and even humility regarding the process by which true freedom came. If one is callow, calloused, or unappreciative of it . . . it is lost.

        The price of freedom is vigilance — but vigilance to honor it: and not just to hoard it up and protect it for oneself.

        For those who have been blessed, there is no greater joy than to bless others.

        The tricky point, is in being wise enough to know what is a blessing to them, and what is just catering to their vices, massaging their “happy-button”, or just harvesting you “likes”.

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