How do you test those beliefs that you have that are untestable through traditional means? How do you rationalize when the ideas that when whatever you think will happen, doesn’t? This can be as simple as not getting the job you hoped for to not being able to get rid of your pain or disease to not being able to reconcile with your kids to your son or daughter turning out vastly differently than how you taught them to be.
How do you deal with your beliefs when something terrible happens… despite people being on guard against that very thing they’re supposed to be guarding against? This can be something like terrorism or a structural flaw in a building that causes it to collapse to something like a defect that was supposed to be removed in the manufacturing process through testing that ends up remaining because the tests didn’t anticipate the stresses on the materials… and it causes the death of your child. Or no matter how good of a worker you are, you’re let go because the company is being bought our or closing. Or you studied long and hard for a test, knowing the materials inside and out and somehow failed anyways.
How do you feel when your faith doesn’t stand up to extensive scrutiny because when the rubber meets the road that the only prayers that were answered were ones that were, statistically, coincidence? Or, even though what happened was rare, but well within the realm of possibility, and things just fell into place, but by talking to all the people involved, you found out there was an entirely logical reasoning behind the series of events? Or because you put forth the time and effort yourself and through your own striving, luck, or by the very fact that medical science was able to help in some way were able to overcome the obstacle?




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  1. Author
    Jear77 2 years ago

    To answer my own question: I no longer could see the ability to believe, so I ceased my belief in something untenable, untestable, and untrue. I am currently reading through https://godisimaginary.com and it’s quite interesting.

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    • griz 2 years ago

      Yet you’ve turned to a belief in just your own self. “Tennable, testable, and true”??

      Actually, I turned to something “beyond me” mainly because it was painfully obvious faith in just myself or,in physical objects and processes proved inadequate.

      You are seeing this in your own way. But you are not yet willing to see that faith in a physical book or a religion based on a physical “salvation” does not equate into a faith in a Spiritual God.

      You cannot test or assess something that’s not before you on the table.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        That which is untestable is patently false

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      • griz 2 years ago

        But to patent something as false that one has tested only parts of with a bias of controlling or having it service them, is foolish.

        That is more a quest for a servant, than a quest for truth.

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        Jear77 2 years ago

        Not so! The things that are tested are within the realms of natural laws. God, the creator of the natural universe would by his every existence need to follow the selfsame laws… OR follow the laws he sets forth in his word, and obviously, he doesn’t.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        The only “truth” of the physical realm, is death. All one can test in the flesh, is death. And all of our Science . . . ends at the alleged “Big Crunch”.

        Is the proposal that Spiritual Life (the very Spirit thereof), has to be beholding to Death? A lot of confusion and frustration lives in this premise.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        at least if I were dead, I would have nothing to worry about! Not REALLY that big of a loss, if you think about it. If there’s a god, I go to hell, but no more worries. If there’s not, I fade into nonexistence, once again, no more worries.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        Allegedly, there is an entity that delights when he can steer us to such a place of despair.

        Don’t let the bastard win. Not when there’s possibility for so much more.

        Consider the astronomical long-shot you take when you buy a lottery ticket hoping for a pay-off. You’re already a risk-taker. Forget what that religion said and did, and seek the possibilities of a god who is not just a vending-machine.

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        Jear77 2 years ago

        I’m not really talking about death in that sense. I look at the classic Christmas tale “it’s a wonderful life” and see nothing would be any different for anyone I know… or have ever known period.

        God may not be a vending machine… yet none of the answers I’ve asked for are “off the shelf remedies.” I never asked for a headache pill, a candy bar, or a sandwich! The things I’ve asked for would involve thousands of people over years. Basically at the core you’re saying your faith is too small… yet a god who can’t — or won’t — put together a conglomerate of consumers / clients to do these things and for them to pay me for my efforts is too small indeed! If I can’t trust god to provide these things – the least of what I Ask, how can I trust him with the bigger fish – the things that would ultimately affect my eternal destiny!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        God is DEFINITELY not a vending machine! Or a magical genie.
        You’ve asked Him for what YOU think you would like. Yes, a job or a healing are good things to wish for. But YOU are still trying to call the shots. (My mother living was a good thing for a boy/teen to wish for — and I wished for it a LOT. But it didn’t happen that way. And once I was finished being angry or bitter that God didn’t do what I wanted, I started to see her removal from my life was the only way I was going to start healing).

        I only had my most recent breakthrough of a new career, when I TOTALLY gave up on calling the shots. I didn’t shut down and stop job-hunting. I just stopped trying to handicap everything towards what “”I”” was SURE was “God’s will”. (a.k.a. the will of the god-who-is-me)

        I am NOT saying your faith is too small. I’m pointing out that from your own words, your faith seems to NOT have been in God at all but in religious works, performances, the efforts of your own hands, and a “religious process” that was not far removed from a “business contract” mode of thinking that is the earmark of fleshly thinking.

        “If I do (or avoid) A while avoiding (or doing B) then I’ve fulfilled my part of the contract and now it’s God’s turn to live up to HIS part by doing what “”I”” want Him to do.

        You’ve been worshiping and praying to the wrong god. This is SO evident from your last statements about putting God to the test on little things. It starts with the “biggest” thing of your heart and your life. (Matt 6:33). And then “all these other things will be added unto you” . . . “in full measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over”.

        You serve a god who wants you coming at this backwards as a ploy to try to control the Almighty.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        That’s not true… at least not in this world. And as you said before pointedly before, the gospel which you believe in isn’t a guarantee. Otherwise, as I said before, the gospel would be two words: commit suicide (to gain eternal life). Embracing physical death in such a theology really would be the ultimate in embracing the fullest life possible for the longest time!

        You say I have it backwards. No! GOD has it backwards, if such a being exists. Take care of my needs of food, shelter, clothing, (not that they’re NOT being taken care of, but it’s not by me — it’s by my parents, because I’ve not gotten a job that can truly support me.) Truly, I feel that it’s impossible to trust god’s existence until the things that are required to be self-sufficient are taken care of!

        The point is this: if any person has been disappointed, terrorized, abused, misused, brokenhearted and broken physically – mentally – spiritually as life tends to make people (as there are VERY few people, who do not fall into one of those categories) and does not demand their needs to be taken care of first or their problems to be either diminished or eliminated… that person is totally insane. What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And if you think about it, that’s the case of faith. It always ends in one way: with the death of the person so having the faith.

        Yes you claim there’s eternal life… yet once again if that’s so great, why not get there as soon as possible? It makes zero sense to stay “here” with the problems involved, when there’s a much better alternative, does it?

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      • griz 2 years ago

        So far as I know only death and taxes come with guarantees. Guarantees existing entirely in the world guaranteed to end!
        So can we agree there is only foolishness in looking for guarantees like this?

        Your “commit suicide” gospel is founded on the belief that God makes mistakes and it’s up to us to correct them. Eve bought a similar lie.
        It denies that everything has purpose and intent even if we cannot currently see it.

        You say your needs are being taken care of, just not in a way that you want them to be. Did Eve not say something similar to herself?

        There is a huge difference between God granting us a physical living and Him “owing” it to us. Followers of Death have both lives of self-sufficiency and of dependency upon others. So do followers of “Life”. Trying to blackmail God into handicapping this to your liking is a bad process. Especially if your worship-endeavors to date have been mainly with physical objects and processes and religions rather than with God’s Spirit.

        What is insane, is trying to bargain with Life; to strike business deals to your profit; to extract guarantees that you can use to sue Life unto a comfortable settlement.

        Or to hold your own life hostage until your demands are met?

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        Yet you forget some of the bible commands “if you will not work you SHALL NOT eat!” By that definition I should have starved to death a long time ago! AND “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother.” and I’m still living with my parents. So if no one will hire me at a wage that I can live by myself — and remember i am looking at this at a literal viewpoint seeking employment is NOT working, being rejected for said employment is NOT working, even the few articles I do for chump change is NOT working as it can’t get a roof over my head, clothes on my back, or food in my stomach!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        I don’t forget about them. I just remember that the first is addressed to lazy sluggards: and the second is an incomplete scripture talking about marriage and procreation!

        You need to learn to let the scriptures be what they are and not what you are already convinced they should be. Ditto for God!

        There could be some culture gap between us. Canada and the US have very different unemployment support systems. But what does your own body and mind tell you? Is it hard labor looking for work and suffering so many rejections?

        Then it’s work!

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        em·ploy·ment əmˈploimənt/ noun: employment “the condition of having paid work.” I would add to that I would add my own definition of a career “the condition of having a living wage for employment in a given industry” Anything less is a job: “Just Over Broke.”

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      • griz 2 years ago

        There’s that legalism again!

        There’s a time and a place for it. Tearing self or others down is rarely the time or place for it!

        If you are working hard to find job you are working.

        ( PS what do you think the standard minimum wage was when that verse you used was penned?! Let the Bible be what it is; and not just what we’re sure it has to be for our agendas to be supported)

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  2. Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

    “How do you test those beliefs that you have that are untestable through traditional means?” & “How do you determine your unprovable beliefs?” & ‘bad life and bad events consistently means nothing can be different’.

    I live in the supernatural. I also live in the natural. It is outrageously crazy, and I love it. I hear you snap your fingers and tell me these things do not exist, but that is what everybody believes. Do you think that we are unaware these seven billion some odd people have no idea of what is really going on?

    I mean, do you think this is not on purpose? Or that there is some obligation not to operate in secret?

    So… magical beings do not exist for you, because, as far as you know, you have never come across a magical being…

    Maybe if you try and deny reality strong enough, what you know to be true, you can indirectly communicate a message that will trick some magical beings around you into showing you more evidence? Because if you have more evidence of their existence and their world, then you actually might be able to have some evidence that all of your problems could be solved?

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    • Author
      Jear77 2 years ago

      Living in the supernatural is an interesting turn of phrase, but what does it really mean? To me, it’s total and complete nonsense. Does it mean that you’re immune — or even less likely to be exposed to harm? No. More often than not it means that you’re actually going to experience MORE harm. It’s like the chinese curse “may you live in interesting times.” Does it mean that you’re guaranteed to be saved? No. Because it could turn out that there’s no god, and you wasted your time believing in it for nothing. Being a “nicer person,” a “more patient person,” a “more truthful person,” doesn’t put a roof over your head, clothes on your back, food in your stomach, or money in your bank account to spend as you want. Does this relationship with god mean that you’ll have more peace? No. I was fully immersed in belief and have always had more stress than others. So have EVERYONE else I know in the Christian community I was a part of are constantly dealing with such things as struggling with finances, health issues, addictions, divorce (actually sometimes the divorce rate of Christians is *higher* than the general population!), the list goes on and on. To me, it makes no sense to worship something that has no physical benefit, and quite often only a mental one — and sometimes not even that. Sorry, warm fuzzies don’t cut it.

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      • Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        Here is the discussion: I am stating I have daily and much experience with the supernatural. You are effectively stating you have none. That is it.

        All of this other stuff you are going on about is simply diversionary.

        Stuff like you ranting about knowing the intimate secrets of two billion or whatever number of global Christians is absolutely absurd.

        I can only take it, from your statements that you have zero experience with the supernatural.

        But, why not just man up to that and say it?

        Most do not, where is the shame of it?

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        Than what about the spiritual experiences of Muslims, of people who follow Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Native American Belief, and so on? If you look at numbers of all the major religions, none of those should be discounted! Far better to say there’s nothing; it’s far more honest.

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      • Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “Than what about the spiritual experiences of Muslims, of people who follow Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Native American Belief, and so on? If you look at numbers of all the major religions, none of those should be discounted! Far better to say there’s nothing; it’s far more honest.”

        Again, you veer off the point entirely, you might as well be arguing that the weather on Neptune is relevant.

        Again, you have zero experience with the supernatural. I have a lot.

        Or, have you? You do not even admit this, you certainly imply it.

        You keep trying to change the subject, it is absurd. It is your own top post, why not stick to it.

        I have first hand experience of many things you do not.

        You certainly have first hand experience of many things I do not, though your entire persona seems to me to be built on lies. You claim to have been a Christian, but I see no evidence of you even having read the bible on a remedial level, much less being aware of any of its’ history or anything.

        I have not even see that you have a thimble full of the knowledge of atheism which I have.

        If anything, I would have to guess you are some Chinese government poster just whittling away, never even having read much of a book at all.

        Why on earth else would you respond to my claims of living in the supernatural be repeated with your same old, tired claims of having once been a Christian… when you show no understanding of even the basics of the Judean and Christian texts?

        You have to be vague, because otherwise it is too easy to entirely disprove your false identity.

        As for you not believing my claims, you do not even challenge me there.

        I would be glad to deal with that.

        But, instead you shift and change the subject like a confidence man trying to avoid the subject.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        I have no spiritual experience… simply because the spiritual world does not exist! Bottom line. Nothing more, nothing less.

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      • Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “I have no spiritual experience… simply because the spiritual world does not exist! Bottom line. Nothing more, nothing less.”

        Had you ever bothered to read the Book of Acts, you would have discovered that in that one book alone three people tried doing this very thing. One was struck blind. The other two were struck down dead on the spot.

        Clearly, you never read the Bible.

        So, if you never were a Christian, what are you talking about?

        If you think my angel talk is some kind of code, have the decency at least to try watching the tv show Lucifer.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        I am fully aware of the stories.

        Yet funnily enough people who do much worse aren’t struck dead… Hitler, those behind the terrorist bombings (not the people who blow themselves up, but the religious leaders who inspire them), people who rob priests, abortion doctors. The list goes on and on.

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      • Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “I have no spiritual experience… simply because the spiritual world does not exist! Bottom line. Nothing more, nothing less.”

        Anyway, I will get back to your original post, as I am actually a researcher who has worked worked in “day jobs” of extremely intellectual and arcane fields of both high level computer security and counterintelligence. Both areas where one deals with extremely difficult to prove matters.

        Though, I will note, here, your own “proofs” and statements of “evidence”, show a person who is extremely sloppy in your beliefs and general thinking. So much so, I strongly doubt you can even fathom the very basics of these matters.

        First of all, only a complete moron with no capacity for honest self-reflection or thinking – at all – can honestly say that “all things are provable by science” as you ludicrously claim.

        The fact is, with your own life, you have countless experiences you can not prove. And if you can not fathom that, then you really should not be typing on such a subject.

        The happenstance reality is that these experiences you can not prove, which actually would the most of your personal life experiences, are simply things nobody cares about.

        Perhaps that is why this concept has escaped your grasp.

        Can you, for instance, prove to me you went to a Lutheran church? No. Can you prove that you masturbated today or this week, or did not? No. Can you prove that you woke up some morning and remember a dream? Can you prove that you had some crush on some person at some point in your life? In fact, what about your personal life can you really prove to anyone, at all?

        Unless others were there – and even then, it is in question – there is little about anything personally you can prove at all!

        The very obvious and painfully well known fallacy, that one can not prove nor disprove an unknown should be foremost in your mind. But, you have slipped this one, and it is a doozy!

        Online, you can prove what? To what rigors? Your picture could be a fake. Everything you say could be false.

        On my standard, that you could be a charalatan or spy or who knows what sort of fake, you certainly could not prove anything. Even if I met you in person, you would have difficulty proving you were Jear77.

        One claim you often make is you are secretly privy to felonious behavior from your “supervisor”. But, what about that can you prove? For all anyone really knows, you are either making that up, or maybe, replacing “someone else” with “your own self”.

        If you HAD anything exceptional in your life… ANY sort of exceptional or rare circumstances… could you prove that, to anyone else? No. Not according to your strict scientific standards. If you met the Pope, baloney. If you saw UFOs, nonsense. If you one time got a real signed autograph from Rich Little — it could be a piece of crap!

        Do you have a high school degree? Fake! A college degree! A lie! I bet if I put your image in google images and search for it, I might get someone else’s profile! Ever think of that, before you stole their identity?!

        Did you ever even try and make your acclaimed devil’s bargain you claim you made with God, “Dear God, give me X amount of money, or I will no longer believe in you?!”

        No, you can not.

        It is all a bunch of stories from a fake person, online.

        None of which would be so terrible, if you did not always go around claiming to speak for all Christians due to your extensive knowledge of all their hearts!

        One ludicrous lie you stated was “all Christians have terrible lives”! Former President Obama? Or the countless other Americans who are famous and rich Christians?! Duh? What about George Lucas? I think George Lucas probably has a better life then you and may disagree with your sweeping anti-Christian hate statements based on your supposed “Christian” experience!

        (Which experience you can not even prove to ANYONE online. Maybe some believe your story, but none admit you ever were really a Christian. To me, your knowledge of Scripture is what I have only seen from gung ho Chinese communist government workers without the slightest background in Christianity!

        But, then, assuming the probable is likely, that you do not even have anything TO PROVE to anyone, as you have had nothing but miserable experiences and NOTHING exceptional in the slightest… what then?

        Well, no, you really could prove nothing, then, either!

        As for others proving their exceptional experiences? Can they? Yes, within bounds and reason. But, a lot, is very difficult to prove, as YOU WERE NOT THERE and ARE NOT THERE.

        These basic facts fly over your head, however.

        Fact is, for someone who CLAIMS to have a super shitty life full of monstrous happenings, you REALLY like to gamble on the dark side. That NOTHING is possible IF YOU ALL KNOWING do not know of it and have not personally experienced it.

        If someone here were a billionare, they could prove it to your skeptical mind. But, why should they when you constantly prepare cakes of shit to feed them?

        When you whip them and play games with them?

        So, your life is so incredibly great, that all you need or ever want is money… that you do not ever even need to seek God. Okay, great. Stop talking about your imaginary experience. You went to some cult and practiced some cult stuff. Blah blah blah.

        While you were trying to get money from God in your EXTORTION scheme, which was ludicrous, I was having evidence RAIN DOWN ON ME.

        Why should money grabbers get to know anything? There are people in the world with real problems and good hearts who deserve immortality and personal joy and wealth and health.

        Those who seek relentlessly, day and night.

        While all you ever did was see God as a means to making MONEY.

        Shallow. Fail.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        Anything observable, if one is willing to put up with an invasion of privacy is provable through video evidence, Even some things can be deduced through proof (fingerprints, DNA, evidence s, otherwise all crimes that were not recorded would go scott free.Mental things are trickier. We can hook a person to a machine and brain waves, areas of brain activity can be recorded. Thoughts themselves, not so much. But prayer is a retrospective thing. You pray for X. and some Y point in the future you get what you prayed for (or not) or perhaps Z better than what you imagined. How do you know it’s not coincidence? Luck?

        I also had a very close friend who was having health problems We clicked right away. He said he talked to god who said had a decade more to live., he died 5 months after meeting him.

        I have another friend who d by the dead that he would succeed (the Santorina religion). He’s believed in that as long as I’ve known him, getting blessed candles. Hasn’t done him a lick of good.

        I have another friend who’s had cancer off and on, devout believer yet still deals with constant pain

        As Christians we are called to live a life of persecution, pain, problems. What good does immortality do if we can’t get anything out of the relationship in this life?

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      • Lucifer Rising 2 years ago

        “Anything observable, if one is willing to put up with an invasion of privacy is provable through video evidence, ”

        No, it is not.

        But, reasoning with someone who probably really has read the Bible at one time, and knows scripture, yet believes that it is reasonable to test God with stuff like: “God, if you exist, then remove this puke stain from my jeans, or else I won’t believe in you anymore”… and “God, if you exist, then give me a bunch of money, or else I will stop saying you exist and leave the church” ….

        These sorts of criteria are unthinkable.

        All the worse because you claim to know Scripture.

        I have seen you post these sorts of statements, even the exact one before, so I know you know the reasonings and Scripture. Yet, somehow, nothing reaches you.

        Saying that is about as bad as scriptural exegesis as one can pull off is not an exaggeration.

        Yet, you think you can apply different standards to other matters, and sometimes do? That just shows you have a really strong love for having truly obvious and shockingly deep double standards. This is hypocrisy.

        It is a mix of complete irrationality with rationality.

        I sincerely have read of psychotics with far better exegesis of Scripture then this.

        As for video being able to prove everything? No. Or, “brain scanning”? No.

        And you have clearly not even stopped to think critically on any of these matters.

        Which means, I have not yet any evidence you have the capacity to think for your own self, at all. Except when it comes to putting God through absurd, childish tests.

        (Because, yeah, everyone is not taught in Sunday School God and quantum physics both work well with tests. Sarcasm. Sarcasm means the reverse is true.)

        Just… stop trying. You have nothing difficult in your life to prove at all, except as an absurd story for people to tell others for shock and disbelief, and perhaps some laughs.

        “God, give me some money, or I am leaving church”.

        Seriously.

        And that you don’t even know to not keep repeating such absurdity…. as if it makes God look bad and you look good.

        Tsk…

        And, no, video of UFOs does not prove UFOs exist.

        If only I believed you were a moron, I would not be mad. But, then, you are trolling me, and us, right?

        Nobody believes this kind of crap.

        What, when Jesus was tested by Satan, what did Jesus say? Oh, sure, you know Satan, come to think of it, I am hungry, so, I will make those stones into bread?

        Did not catch that in all your years and years of Lutheran service? Huh?

        Reeeal believable.

        And how would you prove otherwise? Send video of “you” at Lutheran service? Huh? Like you can’t just get stuff from the web — like your profile pic.

        What is real about you? Nada.

        Just… leave it alone.

        You can not even get that you yourself can not prove much of anything you have experienced. Even if you had video.

        No imagination. Maybe you need to see a psychiatrist and point out you lack the capacity to critical think of exceptional conditions. ie, incapable of critical thought. At all.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        It means something like Proverbs 3:5-6.

        It doesn’t say to discard “our own understanding”; but to realize how faulty it can be and often is. For example, one might REALLY believe religion is the path to God. But God’s word says that it absolutely is not. So to “live supernaturally” is to be willing to receive input from beyond our natural selves: always having to hold our current understanding as “our god”.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        You can’t quote god’s word in one breath, and say it’s not valid as a source in the next.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        As I said, God’s word exists in a context as a whole. One cannot just pull out the parts they think will make God beholding to them or their religious constructs.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        But you CAN’T take the bible’s truth as a whole… because HALF of it is automatically discarded (the old testament)

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      • griz 2 years ago

        The disparity of the God of the OT and the NT troubled me so that I had to set the OT aside. I essentially “told” God that if He wanted me to read it, HE would have to show me the sense of it
        And like Abraham, I had to wait a few decades for a response. But when it came, it was so holy, that it totally changed the way I view things. The OT is not “discarded”: it’s “fulfilled”, in Christ. And there is still wisdom there for the taking, provided one remembers the context of the people, of the times, and that living pre-incarnation and without the infilling of the Holy Spirit, they were like children with a set of rules “to be good” and struggling to fulfill them. They are OUR lesson that religious rule-keeping is NOT the path to salvation; but rather to condemnation. It made them even more aware of their need for a messiah.

        But really, we’ve no cause to gripe that it’s not clear or easy enough to discern God’s word or will, having access to the Holy Spirit (if we accept this gift). We have SO much compared to them.
        It’s like a spoiled rich kid who has access to the entire world laid out before them, complaining how hard they have it.

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        It’s a “pick and choose” thing. The ten commandments, sure! Stoning people for sassing their parents… not so much.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        Different times Jear. Plus are you throwing in the trash everything that Jesus did (including totally fulfilling that old covenant)? Seriously?

        I can still remember a time when you would get a spanking for sassing your parents. We don’t even do that now — and look at the state of our “children”; going out with zero respect for authority and getting cop-shot for the silliest of reasons.

        And BTW, you’re not still trying to “earn” your righteousness with observance of commandments, are you??? Remember, Jesus totally distilled ALL of the commandments (some 616 of them), to just two. Two that are totally effective, so long as one understands what love truly is. (it’s not the same as spoiling).

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  3. ladybarbara 2 years ago

    I believe that kindness and patience will always win out in the end. I believe in being kind to people. I do not try to change people. Everyone has their own ways of doing things and I let them be. When things don’t work out as planned, I work around it. People will do what they do and I sit back and watch how it all works out. I don’t believe in trying to control other people.
    For example: Immortal Pirate and I were going to try a new restaurant and I wanted the rice and beef kabab dish that I saw pictured on their window ad. My plan was to order Koobideh and enjoy it. However, it went more like this:

    Yesterday the International Bistro opened for a Grand Opening in Avondale, Arizona. Immortal Pirate and I were the very first customers to come in and sit down at one of their many tables. The waitress was busy putting together menus and we had to ask her for a menu. She brought us menus. We noticed that no silverware was put out, nor any napkins. We ordered and waited patiently. We waited for a half hour. Then, we were told that the food we ordered could not be prepared because they do not have all the ingredients. Item after item on the menu was impossible to make for us. The owner was wringing his hands at their failures. He came out to apologize to us. We asked what he COULD cook for us. It was gyros, so we ordered gyros. I told him that I had my heart set on the Koobideh beef and rice, but that “patience is a virtue” and I know that they will have Koobideh the next time we visit. We were kind and patient with the service (although the service was bad). Well, hay, we were the very first customers. We did not expect them to be 100% ready. When the gyros came, we had to ask for silverware and napkins. The waitress said there was custard flan for dessert and we ordered it —– but, they did not have any custard flan and brought us each a brownie instead. We reacted with rejoicing laughter, thankful for the brownie. The owner came out again to ask if I was a Baha’i. Well, how did he know I was a Baha’i?

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! It had to be that I had said something from the Baha’i writings, “Patience is a virtue.”

    He is from Shiraz. We talked about being Baha’is. We talked about the persecutions of the Baha’is in Iran and his family members had been imprisoned and executed in Adelibad Prison. They were executed with Zarrine , the cousin of Soul Sequel’s @Thomas. I told him how I am new to the area and have not seeked out the Avondale Baha’i community, yet. ——- He welcomed me. We made a new friend in him. When we paid the bill, we left a 20% tip, even though the service was not the best. We know it will get better. It was kind to give a tip that was what it would be if the service had been good.

    The giveaway phrase was, “Patience is a virtue.” Kindness is such a rare reaction in today’s society. It was nice to be recognized as a Baha’i because of my kindness and patience.

    I believe in kindness. I believe that when things don’t work out as planned, you make another plan. When things were not working out at the restaurant, we chose to go with what would work out. Above all, kindness and patience will make the plan run smoother.

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    • Thomas 2 years ago

      @ladybarbara

      Abha my dear Miss Barbara. I am happy you settled in Arizona…It is a beautiful State…I have been there many times. I am happy you and Jay are finally together without the 356 miles in between. May you two continue to be recipient of confirmations from on high.

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      • ladybarbara 2 years ago

        Thank you, @Thomas. I sold my California house and co-own this house with Jay in Arizona. We are doing great. Jay built a green house and I am growing a vegetable garden, protected from the hot sun. It keeps me busy. How are you doing? Build any great buildings lately??? I think of you each time I hear of rain in Southern Texas. I pray for you and hope you and your family stay safe. Blessings on high to you and your family.

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      • Thomas 2 years ago

        @ladybarbara

        My dear Miss Barbara…how exciting it is to work in a great house. It is so refreshing to grow vegetables. I love herbs like mint and rosemary.

        As for my work project, we just finished doing a 33 mile beach nourishment along the Gulf Coast.

        I miss hearing about your old tea room, and the stories of your grandma. I have been listening to some talks by Bill Sears. His personal assistant, Mr. John McCant, was my guest and I felt so joyful just being in his company.

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  4. Author
    Jear77 2 years ago

    In watching videos I came across this one, I think it’s interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3fGNc4MdXg

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    • griz 2 years ago

      There are certainly no shortage of vids with people asserting that God doesn’t measure up to “their own understanding”.

      But every single one of them “requires” that “our current understanding” be god; the only “ultimate” that we will learn on.

      To date, that hasn’t worked out so well for our species! But what use is History anyways?!

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      • Author
        Jear77 2 years ago

        That video is on comic books, and fictional gods . I thought it relevant

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      • griz 2 years ago

        I cannot stream at my current location. If my presumption was wrong I apologize.

        Consider though, if one is talking about fictional gods, religion has its share. Consider just how long we have been trying to re-cast God as a function of just our own understanding.

        As our “creation” there to serve us according to our own good pleasure. And then should we find its more the other way around, we pout and threaten to fire Him!

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  5. griz 2 years ago

    First, I make sure I’m applying the “spiritual prescription” properly (nudge, nudge!). One cannot accurately assess the value of a foot creme if they put it in their hair.

    And one cannot assess the value of a belief in Christ’s teachings if the most valuable of them is disregarded to follow a belief in a book or a religion.

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    • Author
      Jear77 2 years ago

      That means the book should be discarded, thrown out, eliminated from use then!

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      • griz 2 years ago

        Or perhaps just the religion relying on pulling out just the parts they think useful for “leveraging” God into doing what WE think He should!

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