This is a quote from Star Trek’s Q.

From my vantage point, traveling through the system “but not of it”, this seems the quintessential crux of Americana: both the manifest physical and the “religion” of the philosophical that brings a tear to the eye.

I’m going somewhere with this; but first I’d like to involve you and hear your thoughts on it.

Where is the truth in it?
Where is the folly in it?
(Because both are there.)




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  1. spitfire3dc 11 months ago

    the only reason I see danger in that is if the society itself is dysfunctional.

    Society is not about the law of averages, but the strong minded influencing the weak.For example, One has to be a pretty weak minded idiot to support a child predator as a person who will represent your views, unless of course you consider molestation the lesser of an alternative evil.

    I’m shocked about how close the recent senate election in Alabama was. Looking at the demographics, if it was up to white males; Moore would have won. So, the numbers show that a very high percentage of white, male, Southerners would turn a blind eye to moral depravity. How can anyone consider that particular society anything but totally fucked up, or at all capable of considering what is in the best interests of the majority?.

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      griz 11 months ago

      @Spitfire3dC
      What is the society though, but a collection of people? If the people are functional how can the society be dysfunctional?

      I see this huge push to blame society blame the society. Or blame the leaders. Or the rich. Or the poor. Or the immigrants. Or the Rednecks. Or “the other tribe”.

      There’s always someone or something else to blame. (Which began in the Garden of Eden with the man blamig the woman and the woman blaming the serpent!)

      But back to the quote from Q. The danger I think is when people don’t have any respect for the society — which ultimately means they don’t have any respect for themselves.

      If a person has at least some respect for the society that is granting them their rights, they can explore beyond the current boundaries without bringing down the system that is granting them the rights to explore beyond the boundaries.

      But if it’s all about my rights with no responsibilities to the society granting the rights, those rights will fail as the society granting them fails. It’s the ultimate in self-sabotage.

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      • spitfire3dc 11 months ago

        @griz To me society is more than a collection of people. It’s an organized collection of people and organizations need leadership and management. Society itself cannot be blamed for the dysfunctionality any more than the drones in a factory can take specific responsibility for the profits and losses (unless of course they do not do their jobs as directed).

        I wholeheartedly support your view associated with respect. But that brings me back to leadership. We do get what we as a whole deserve. I don’t see it as a blame game. I put high expectations on those I need to follow to participate in any organization, or I just won’t follow. I won’t throw a wrench into proceedings. I just remove myself.

        I left a career in corporate management because I saw the nature of the beast I was involved with, which was a repeat performance from several others I experienced. When leadership is all about self reward, versus a shared the wealth approach, even though I was on the end that benefited; I didn’t see fairness.

        You run this parallel analogy of biz organization/society and what I see at the end of the play is bankruptcy. Financial and moral.

        Now think about the nature of politics as our organizers are selected. Our leaders are selected for us. Sure, we get to vote, but we vote for a person who has had to use the scientific method of politics to be made the choice first. Trump, did not go that route. He went straight to the people and because there were enough that could let their personal interest buttons get pushed, he avoided the political approach. it will be near impossible to change the mindset of those suffering the ignominy of their own self interest orientation.

        We have two very interesting societies living side by side at the moment. One, where the functional mindset has always been about self. One that is thinly disguised as a socialist orientation that suggests broad support of needs, but by clarifying those needs at special interest levels to secure blocks of support.

        Any way you look at it, leadership drives society Leadership has to understand “the buck stops here” and unless it is driven by the long term benefits of all, including the generations to follow; we’re fucked. Pretty well the way you concluded your response to my response.

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        griz 11 months ago

        @Spitfire3dC
        Drones can’t be held responsible for overall productivity. But they certainly can affect it.

        This seems to be a good spot to insert the notion of leadership that is spiritual (God) vs leadership that by its nature is imperfect (a physical person thing or process). A corporate, national or religious leader can set direction or parameters (exhort and inspire). But how the individuals apply themselves within this structure, is entirely up to them (ie, if they consider themselves answerable to a higher authority).

        Jesus for example worked within the socio-political structure that existed, even requiring his followers to “render unto Caesar what was Caesar’s”. And from here he made a difference as great as BC and AD.

        Business is “just business” — very animalistic and predatory. Unless someone puts their energy into it to make it something different. Without this, it defaults to Humanities lowest base nature.

        The current POTUS does seem to be the poster child for self-interest: personally and also in the process by which he came to power.
        There is also considerable Messiah complex functioning in tandem with this: the “Chosen One”, master of trickle-down economy and trickle-down morality. (Well, the former never trickles, it just hordes up; and the latter seems to gush! One can only lead people to where they currently are themselves.)

        Canada has struggled with identity, living on the literal steps of a Powerhouse. But current times are a good measuring stick not just of what we are but of what we are not.
        And I suppose thanks are in order for those participating in such a dire and expensive experiment, with results broadcast daily.

        An interesting thought. The “spiritual economy” functions on a trickle-down righteousness: from God through Christ to the citizens of His kingdom.
        Then enter the various “growing seed” analogies, encouraging followers to change the world through various Grassroots processes growing up through it.

        But this trickle-down can only happen when the source is “deistic”. We try to overlay imperfect sources into this role — leaders, money, feelings etc.
        We think that if we can put on a head dressing rich enough in these in perfect things, it will trickle down and make everything beneath it righteous.

        We’ve tried this experiment countless times in countless cultures and Generations.

        It has yet to work for any sustainable period.

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  2. luftballooneyegouge 11 months ago

    “Tut, tut. Do not think that I deplore your martial virtue of deception and strategem. Quite the contrary. I have nothing but admiration for your whole species.”-Trelane the Squire of Gathos & Godson to Q

    It’s the watery beer…….

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    • Author
      griz 11 months ago

      @luftballooneyegouge
      Q who?
      No no, not that Q!

      Not even Q2. Q3, from Voyager s2e18. The philosopher Q who was imprisoned in a comet for daring to suggest immortality was a curse.

      (Not to be confused with Q4 who mated with Q1 to produce Q5, or “Q-nior”. And I’m sure that’s just the Q-tip of the Q-berg!)

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