Our identity is of course personal.
But it is perhaps just as much Social and Historical.

And a social or historical identity crisis can be just as devastating as a personal identity crisis.

Thoughts?

Do you feel you are integrated across these dimensions, or in crisis?




22 Comments

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  1. Jear77 2 weeks ago

    Sometimes. Not always. VAST Differences exist between cultures, religions, ideas, ethnicities, sexualities, time, place, etc.. to the point that we can sometimes wonder “are the people we are looking at… people?”

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    • Author
      griz 2 weeks ago

      @Jear77
      I would re-assert, “always”. Despite differences BETWEEN cultures, the individual is ALWAYS nested within the realities of their culture. Even if they take pains to not be. (One could argue ESPECIALLY if they take pains not to be!).
      History is different, because one can just remain blissfully ignorant of it and endlessly repeating it . . . BUT still be nested within and a function of.

      Cultures differ . . . but people are people. Pretending they’re not, doesn’t make them so.

      But conversely, a person can be such a sluggish dullard — a veritable piece of flotsam on the surface of the society — that their “personhood” can be diminished almost to the point of absence. Without personal definition (or “meaning”, a tie-in to other threads we discuss about “meaning sufficient to offset suffering), they can become more just a facade (or poor metaphor?) of the society . . . and the history within which the society nests.

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      • Jear77 2 weeks ago

        @griz what i mean is the idea of the nazis who did as they were told, killing the jews, and the same concept duplicated with the student prison experiment, and the shock test experiment.

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      • Author
        griz 2 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        But the commonality in all of these situations . . . was Human nature: the underlying “Human” culture. (Imagine a race of aliens studying the planet. They would identify one over-arching culture, with various sub-cultures nested within it).

        So that would mean studying the History or sociology of ANY Human society from anywhere on the planet within the past million years . . . would essential be a study of one’s own nature.
        We are where we’ve come from, to very great degree. Actually, how could we be anything else?

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      • Jear77 2 weeks ago

        @griz Not so. We think we are immune to such influences to our circumstances. But we aren’t. And the few who would resist… we label them as dangerous, as misfits, as abnormal, when those should be the majority of the people out there, and the poor few who are suckers who follow blindly. Is it no small wonder I reject wanting to be a “sheep” that christian ideology is filled with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpYgYoNGM38

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      • Author
        griz 2 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        Wow.
        Not sure where that tempest came from.
        We are most assuredly the product of both culture and History.

        You continue to just harvest the parts you like out of the bigger (bitter?) picture. The Bible says not to WANT to be a sheep but that we are LIKE sheep. We’ll sit in one place, munching to our heart’s content. But if a shepherd doesn’t exercise come judgement over them they will quickly exhaust the forage in one area rendering it unfit for many generations to come.
        Sound familiar compared to our current Human reality?

        The only instances where it’s desired, is in comparisons of “being the shepherd’s flock” and “not being the shepherd’s flock.

        You know these things Jear. You cherry-pick so you can maintain the negative defeatist stance.

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      • Jear77 2 weeks ago

        @griz i don’t think you got the point, but nevermind. You probably wouldn’t understand

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      • Author
        griz 1 week ago

        @Jear77
        I recognize a part-fallacy-part-truth some religions teach for the sake of trying to be cute and indoctrinational at the same time.

        I understand that many of the conceptions you have garnered about things Spiritual and Divine, and what is actually written in the Bible are rather messed up, rendering a very inaccurate picture.

        If you want to be pissed off at God for a while, fine.
        But at some level it would be beneficial to own that you’re raging at a counterfeit you bought into and have not yet found the genuine article.

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      • Jear77 1 week ago

        @griz more to the point, the god of the bible wants people to do things his way, a way i can’t go, a path i simply don’t want, regardless of anything else. The world has more than enough servants. Too many if you ask me.

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      • Author
        griz 1 week ago

        @Jear77
        Reality Jear. There are time-proven ways to live with it, and time-condemned follies from fighting against it that send a psyche somewhere bullish.

        We each have an ego that wants reality (and others) to do things our way.
        But reality is bigger than our ego (pre-eminent too) and when it wins we project bitterness and look for something just a touch bigger than our ego to project onto and blame!
        This is basic psychology 101. Woe to the person who’s ego has grown so big only The Archetypal Almighty is SLIGHTLY larger and the “logical” one to blame.

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      • Jear77 1 week ago

        @griz yet we are finding biological processes and brain activity that shows that the very concept is rooted in the evolutionary systems that made us who we are as humans. Seems suspicious to me that it could be discovered…

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      • Author
        griz 1 week ago

        @Jear77
        The belief that we can interact beneficially with the greater Transcendent whole isn’t at odds with what science is learning about the brain and psychology. It actually maps together exceptionally well.

        It’s perhaps more suspicious that we want to hold on to religious constructs that just drive us to a negative encounter with Life.
        (Some hold on to them wanting to make allegorical love to them and some wanting to fight with them. Each produces its own dysfunction that then wants to fight with the other disfunction. Most of what you bring up just wants to fight with the other dysfunction)

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      • Jear77 1 week ago

        @griz not as well as you might think! IMHO, it actually shows the opposite, because Christians can’t believe in evolution. If there are biological processes that we have that show how belief systems are produced in an older part of the brain, science is showing us that it’s purely biological to try to call something in retrospect a miracle.

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      • Author
        griz 7 days ago

        @Jear77
        Who told you that lie??

        “How we got here” is never made a condition of salvation.

        When are you going to accept that you fell in with a book-worshiping cult; and that your anger with them is in no way transferable onto anything else?

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      • Jear77 7 days ago

        @griz “how we got here” is the whole message of the bible… in *exact* literal terms. The *only* place it is not (because it would be poor hermeneutics) are the sections of poetry and prophecy.

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      • Author
        griz 6 days ago

        @Jear77
        The Bible is much more about HOW we should interact with the personal, shared, and transcendent reality that is now before us.

        “How it began”, is something we can safely consign to the fullness of time to resolve.

        How the ball started rolling can (and often does) become a horrendous distraction from our guiding it as much as possibility allows, to somewhere beneficial rather than somewhere detrimental.

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      • Jear77 6 days ago

        @griz there are reasons why there is a literal interpretation of most of the bible, mainly because other parts fall apart without it. If you take parts of it as non-literal, anything in the bible can be interpreted from that standpoint… up to and including the existence of a creative force which started it all.

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      • Author
        griz 6 days ago

        @Jear77
        Problems arise when one tries to understand a series of texts between 1,900 and 10,000 years old, with conventions that are 400 years old at best.

        As I’ve mentioned before (too many times to count now!), interpretation has EVERYTHING to do with one’s intent in interpreting. The intent to service oneself will result in a specific interpretation. The intent to find fault or build resentment will result in another. The intent to apply standards of understanding and interpretations just 400 years old will result in another. The intent to find mythology will result in another. The intent to find history, another.

        And the intent to find the very Spirit of Truth, regardless of what personal constructs of resentment, arrogance and deceit need to be sacrificed, an entirely different one.
        Arguably, the most accurate and truthful and beneficial result possible.

        Actually the Origin story you seem so attracted to, functions well within the above intent regardless of whether one considers it literal History, mythological story, or total allegory. The end result of a more successful interaction with ALL levels of reality/existence (starting with personal and extending up through the hierarchy) is still there regardless of what exactly the “Originating event” looked like, was or was not.

        That’s why I said in another thread that it was “safe” to simply let it be revealed in the fullness of time. One doesn’t have to cast an irrevocable vote for exactly what that event HAD to look like, to partake of the benefits should one choose to follow “the prescribed recipe”.

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      • Jear77 6 days ago

        @griz there are PLENTY who say believe literalism or you can’t be right!

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      • Author
        griz 5 days ago

        @Jear77
        Even a plethora of people who say or believe I’m a toaster will not make it so.

        (BTW, where did “liberalism” come from in the context of our discussion?)

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      • Jear77 5 days ago

        @griz uh… you misread, or the voice program did. The root word is literal

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      • Author
        griz 5 days ago

        @Jear77
        Yea, dictations software snafu. Too late right now to re-unpack it, so letting it slide!

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