What is the U.S.’s greatest shame?
Capitalism
patriarchy
slavery
discovery
oppression of marginalized groups
the economy

I was just looking at a photograph set in 1935 at the signing of the Social Security Act. in the picture there was one white woman present and everyone else was a white man. I began to ponder how strange we are. all of the things we have done s a nation, what we have stood for, or not and all I can really do at this point is suffer with a bit of an identity conflict and wonder why we did all that? we are a strange lot.




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  1. Gina 2 years ago

    Slavery…

    …which really hasn’t ended.

    Institutionalized racism is real.

    “American slavery was technically abolished in 1865, but a loophole in the 13th Amendment has allowed it to continue “as a punishment for crimes” well into the 21st century. Not surprisingly, corporations have lobbied for a broader and broader definition of “crime” in the last 150 years. As a result, there are more (mostly dark-skinned) people performing mandatory, essentially unpaid, hard labor in America today than there were in 1830.”

    http://returntonow.net/2016/06/13/prison-labor-is-the-new-american-slavery/

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    • Author
      Scarlett 2 years ago

      @Gina oh ya, it is! I was recently part of an oppressed group project at school. we could choose whichever oppressed group we wanted and I chose the African American oppressed group. I chose this group because I work with primarily African American ppl, and wanted to understand better what they endured.
      I learned that even today African Americans are enduring a wage gap, more African American children live in poverty than any other group save for Native American children with whom they tie. African American children are more likely to have Lowe birth weight, die from influenza. African American teens are four times more likely to be arrested, and five times more likely than their white counterparts to be incarcerated. Our economy is built out of the debris of slavery.
      we live in a white world with our white walls and white men running the show.
      african Americans are over represented in the prison system.
      all of this needs to stop. now.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @Scarlett Do you watch the TV show, Blackish? It’s one of the best things on TV. They dealt with the prison system in this week’s episode. It’s titled: Don’t Feed the Animals. It’s amazing how they can take a heavy topic, teach us, still make us laugh in only 20 or so minutes. It’s brilliant. Their first show after the 2016 election is classic.

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      • Author
        Scarlett 2 years ago

        @Gina I have never seen it. I don’t hardly ever watch tv anymore. I read a lot.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @Scarlett Reading is good.

        Here is a short clip from the after the 2016 election: Called “Living In Trump’s America”
        (for some reason the audio is a bit off from their mouths, but it’s still powerful)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuJmSC5LB0

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  2. Spitfire3dC 2 years ago

    Ours is the residential school travesty where First Nations children were taken away from their parents to live in parochial schools, to force an acclimatization to the new, European driven status quo.

    It has high visibility at the moment up here as we attempt to determine how justice would be best served.

    For you guys; just deleted my response. Not my place to offer an opinion.

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    • Author
      Scarlett 2 years ago

      @Spitfire3dC hmmmm, this is interesting. hadn’t heard of this. how long ago did this happen? would you consider this systematic kidnapping? how did the children fare after it all?

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      • Spitfire3dC 2 years ago

        @Scarlett the kids didn’t fare well at all. They were abused by the people entrusted to protect them and irreparable damage was done in so many ways including trust issues at so many levels.

        It happened almost a couple of centuries back but the trust has never been reestablished.

        It is s a very strange thing trying to exact justice for things we weren’t personally responsible for, much like how you become personally blamed for some of the thing done in the name of freedom by individuals that are really driven by personal gain. Just as strange to hold a grudge for something not done to you personally, but we do get driven by people on agendas that ultimately come down to some form of greed, either in power or attention or both.

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    • Gina 2 years ago

      @Spitfire3dC I don’t mind hearing criticism from people outside of our country. I am not one of those people. I would love to hear what you think.

      Hey, we did the same thing to our First Nation’s families. It seems to be the thing people do to the people they are stealing from.

      At our state fair this year, they set up a Japanese Internment Camp exhibit under the bleachers at the fair. Turns out that is exactly where they put some of the camps during WWII in the the state of Washington.

      Our list is lonnnnnnng when it comes to bad things we have done. BUT, we have to talk about them so we don’t repeat the bad deeds.

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      • Spitfire3dC 2 years ago

        @Gina well, only because you asked. Your “country” can’t be blamed for the slave trade. The blame lies in the businesspeople who allowed morality to be ignored in the name of profit. And history hasn’t taught the “country” anything it seems. What is going on right now with death being meted out by America offshore, to people who are fundamentally innocent civilians whose lives are just as valuable as your next door neighbours, is based on the same premise. Tell the people it is for freedom, when making a buck is the actual motivation.

        I don’t think many Americans are aware of the death toll world wide at the the hands of a mentality that sees guns as a solution. 3,000 deaths drove a rampage that is conservatively estimated in the hundreds of thousands and somehow that is marketed as justice. Put an Iraqui baby next to an American baby and explain to me why one is less valuable than another.

        I know I am preaching to the converted with you Gina, but America is not getting more respect worldwide as many there believe. As a marketer, the equity in the American brand is falling rapidly. Where at one time it represented something associated with premium quality, of late it is becoming tarnished badly from within and from without. All you have to do is ask an American backpacker in Europe whey they sew a Canadian flag on the pack? It isn’t because they are proud of what their brand represents in the real world regardless of what the propagandists are feeding to a willing group of diners.

        I have encountered many people who, as I, loved to come down to the States that have written it off as too dangerous, just like the travel advisories put out by governments to avoid certain places in the world. It amazes me that America is being put into the same category as war lord infested countries where life is cheap. It’s mind boggling to think this ever could have happened to one of the greatest civilizations to have ever existed on the planet.

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  3. Weenis 2 years ago

    You’re so out of touch with reality it’s amazing.

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    • Author
      Scarlett 2 years ago

      @Weenis it is not okay for you to say that to me. You can either apologize or I will block you.

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Scarlett
        Go to your happy place, my friend. That wasn’t totally horrendous and horrible, what he said. In his own way, it was almost “nice”.

        Guard against the zeal to simply block out the aspects of life we might not find palatable. That’s what Trumpism does with it’s whole “fake news” schtick. (Which is just a particularly effective self-inflicted psychological blocking of uncomfortable truths/reality.

        Like it or not, even discordant voices are a part of “who we are”. If we just dismiss or block them, we lose sight of the full picture. And those seeking enlightenment cannot function for long like this.

        Part of “freedom”, is that people get to be exactly who it is they wish to be. We cannot celebrate our freedom to express while denying it of others without becoming hypocrites.

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      • Author
        Scarlett 2 years ago

        @griz I am setting a boundary with @weenis. It is entirely my right to do so. we teach people how to treat us in life. Should I have stayed with an abusive ex because it was part of me? I do agree that we are all connected and what is in me is in you, and vice versa, but I choose to surround myself with people who are a little bit emotionally healthier than to come on here and simply use negative words at me, without giving an answer. Maybe @weenis will reflect on what he said and apologize, and maybe he won’t, at which point, yes, I will block him, simply because it is not okay with me for people to talk to me like that. If I do nothing, I am teaching him and others, it is okay to treat me that way. We have a different belief system when it comes to our mental health.

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @Scarlett
        Yes, we have every “”right”” to block, walk away from or “unfriend” whomever we wish.

        I was thinking however, about a very good thread you started a while back about being “anti-fragile”. This is not a poke, but a looking-ahead on the path to fuller self-realization. A place where where a more complete putting down of our baggage means we can not just be in the presence of others trying to foist their baggage on others, they actually become out greatest teachers: as we exercise not letting them trigger our buttons unto giving them “the feeding” they crave.

        Now may not be the time in your journey for that. Exercise over-done can hurt us rather than make us stronger.

        I don’t see my job as teaching others how to treat me. Freedom means they can treat me as they wish, within the bounds of the law.
        My “job” is to fellowship and participate with people, and who they currently choose to be. And through this, they have the freedom to become better people — or to remain prisoners of their baggage. And I can only grow stronger for the little work-out they provide.

        It’s a bit like how a great martial arts master can endure even the vehement attacks of a novice; effortlessly parrying every blow, to the consternation of the attacker.

        One is not “doing nothing”. (With another debate pending on whether blocking or unfriending someone actually “teaches” them anything other than they can control us away!)
        By us not running out of their presence and not helping them with their baggage, they have a better chance of learning that we are not going to let them push our buttons and cede control to them.

        Consider the Lord’s Prayer. Where does God provide sumptuous food laid out before us (for our nourishment)?
        In the absence of our enemies??

        Or in the presence of them? This isn’t a passage about vengeance or pay-back; but a simple statement of where we are nourished.

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      • Weenis 2 years ago

        @Scarlett Why isn’t it OK to say? What if it’s true? Still not OK to say?

        Everything on your list is so loaded with assumptions and garbage it’s amazing.

        Let’s pick the worst one of the list, the one we can probably all say is bad. “Slavery”.

        99% of everyone on this website is a slave today. We’re all slaves. We all have to work, we all have to pay taxes, we all have to do all these things just right or we’re punished.

        On top of that, slavery has been a part of different societies going back 10’s of thousands of years. So on what basis are you going to say it’s a “great shame”?

        If we consider the slavery in America during the 1800’s many could argue that American slavery wasn’t actually bad, but helped people out of tribal warfare, and put them in a very decent situation where they were cared for. Many “slaves” were part of families. The idea that all these plantation owners constantly beat, maimed, killed and murdered all the cotton pickers is a common narrative, but it’s not the most realistic depiction of slavery in the 1800’s.

        Everything else on your list apart of slavery is a joke.

        Patriarchy? Seriously? Please… point to the great injustice and push of “Patriarchy” from America. America, as an institution, where it’s being patriarchal

        Capitalism? Capitalism is actually one of the things that sets America apart from many others in terms of greatness. ALLLLLL countries are capitalistic in some sense, it’s just that we’ve chosen to be free market capitalists. Which is the best kind of capitalist, btw.

        So, all in all, here’s what I think. You attempt to think about big things in that little underpowered brain of yours. And you figure out an edgy question about how shameful America is. And in so doing you pick a bunch of liberal talking points that you don’t fully understand. In so doing, you create this thread, and then I facepalm, physically and emotionally.

        Blocking me would be dumb, as others have pointed out above. It accomplishes nothing except allow you to continue living in your hyper-liberal bubble of social services and pipe dreams.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @Weenis Aaaah, the privileged, out of touch white male rears his ugly head and actually says this, “American slavery wasn’t actually bad…”

        Here is an advertisement for the selling of a black woman in the 19th Century “great america”:

        “For sale, a remarkable smart healthy Negro wench, about 22 years of age; used to both house work and farming.”

        The advertisement indicates she has a child that is 9 months old. The child will be taken from her and sold “at the purchaser’s option.”

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      • Weenis 2 years ago

        @Gina Actually, what I said was-

        “If we consider the slavery in America during the 1800’s many could argue that American slavery wasn’t actually bad, but helped people out of tribal warfare, and put them in a very decent situation where they were cared for.”

        I didn’t say “American slavery wasn’t actually bad.”

        See, what I’m doing here is I’m offering different point of views on a debated topic. I’m trying to show you it’s not as cut and dry as you’d like to think.

        Nice advertisement. Which democratic leftist newspaper of the time did you find that advertisement in?

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    • GothUnkle 2 years ago

      @Weenis Ok I get that you don’t believe in pretty much all of that stuff up there, but we can both agree that slavery was bad, right? This isn’t that hard.

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    • Gina 2 years ago

      @Weenis What is wrong with you? You crawl out from under your rock to pick on a vital member of this site? And, for what? You don’t think slavery is a stain on this country? I pity your wife.

      @immortal_pirate Shame on you pirate for liking this creep’s response. @scarlett has been nothing but kind to you and your lady.

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      • luftballooneyegouge 2 years ago

        @Gina
        It’s parasitic,… feeding off the pain of others…….
        It’s like veal.
        Sicklicious!
        I’d like to think I just feed off the awkward discomfort of others.
        Id like to…

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      • griz 2 years ago

        @Gina
        Actually, there’s nothing wrong! This is just condition normal.

        In a way it’s almost cute that some things are “constants”; and that “freedom” also includes the freedom to self-delude. It’s just part of the mix.

        Let people be who it is they are driven to be; and garner the wisdom — tragic or otherwise — that they’ve expended their life to bring to us.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @griz I highly disagree with you. There is a lot wrong with shaming someone for no good reason. @weenis gave no context to why he thinks @scarlett is “out of touch with reality”. Feelings do not equate to Fact. It isn’t “almost cute” for a man to berate a woman. After the Trump win, women in this country and if you noticed, AROUND THE WORLD are fed up. To quote the great Civil Rights Heroine Fannie Lou Hamer: ‘I’m Sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired’’.

        Bravo for you @scatlett to stand up for yourself. I am proud of you.

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @Gina
        Firstly he hardly ever gives reason or justification for his assertions! This is just condition normal for him.

        Secondly . . . That was “shaming”!?? :rolf:
        That was practically an affectionate peck on the cheek from him!

        At the very least, it is a valuable insight into what he considers reality.

        @scarlett routinely and regularly establishes herself as someone with a very good grasp on reality; and always seeking to expand it. Anyone showing up to dispute this as a stand-alone assertion, speaks more against themselves then her.

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      • Gina 1 year ago

        @griz Shame, Humiliate, put down…however you want to put it. You know that was what he was doing, and if he was actually someone who conversed with @scarlett in a fun way…ever; it would seem like an affectionate peck. He doesn’t say shit on this site in a long while, and popped in here to “peck” at a woman who works really hard at being a grounded, decent human to all. I had every right to call that out.

        @immortal_pirate and I go back and forth. We dig, we agree, we poke, we disagree; he can say those things to me because I constantly throw those words back at him. @weenis hasn’t developed any kind of relationship here, especially with @scarlett. He just pokes and pokes. Once in a blue moon he will explain his side in a way a normal human would do, but it’s rare.

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @Gina
        I refuse to be upset that someone is being who they choose to be.
        And I refuse to give them access to my emotions with the simple utterance of a few words. And I tout this as one of the more essential and least-taught life-skills out there.

        I know this is a shocker, but there are people out there who will use emotions to try to control others. Whether those “fishing” for emotional response, or those who “fill the net” with their emotional responses as a bid to control the person trying to control them! I means both are playing the exact same game . . . and probably have far more in common with each other than they could comfortably admit!

        What I offer here is neither criticism nor support for “either side”. It is simply pointing out to a better way of living where a thicker skin means one can maintain a more tender heart. Otherwise one has to limp through life with a tender skin and a thick heart!

        For consideration, what effective incentive are people giving him for change and participation beyond either a) blocking him or b) playing the game by his rules?

        Like it or not, we cannot force another to change to our liking. But we can change ourselves unto encouraging people to be more likable! This is how we change the world.

        Not by emotionally insisting that everyone else needs to change!

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina Typical leftist tactic…demonize that which you disagree with and marginalize those you disagree with. So stop trying to shame me for liking weenis or what he says.
        Therefor, I will invoke my 1st Amendment Right of FREE SPEECH.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @immortal_pirate Read above. Your @weenis buddy gave no fact or context to why he berated @scarlett. Typical rightie tactic, attack women, run them over and blame the left.

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina, @Scarlett is a big girl, as in an adult, I think she can take care of herself. I have no doubt she can handle it, she as much as told weenis whats what. I have no feud with her, nor do I desire to.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @immortal_pirate You liked his comment berating her. That is not cool. Don’t try to pretend it is. You have to defended your buddy weenis many times, is he not a big boy as in an adult?

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina You’re obsessed with Weenis Bashing…
        I don’t always agree with his views but he has the right to have and express his opinions just as much as you do. Imagine how boring SoulSequal would be if no one expressed dissenting views…it would just be a circle jerk of liberalism.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @immortal_pirate No, I am obsessed with standing up for what I believe. Always have and always will. IF the Weenis wasn’t such a turd, there would be no need for me to stand up to him. He offers nothing, and only comes here briefly to berate a perfectly nice woman.

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @immortal_pirate
        Well, both “tribes” call down more than their fair share of “fake news” upon thoughts they would rather not entertain as part of the freedom mix!

        How does that old saying go? It is a mark of intelligence to be able to entertain a thought/belief/stance, without ascribing to it. We live in an increasingly uber-fragile, thin-skinned, thick-hearted society where anything that does not affirm, massage who/where we current are, needs to be viciously (religiously?) attacked. (Demonized, marginalized, dismissed, blocked, unfriended, “fake-news”ed)

        This pic has great traction . . . regardless of which tribe is assessing the “jerk” label upon another! (here’s hoping it inserts into content!)

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  4. luftballooneyegouge 2 years ago

    Being self absorbed to a level of total maniacal insanity,
    That’s the United States problem.

    “Capitalism
    patriarchy
    slavery
    discovery
    oppression of marginalized groups
    the economy”

    All countries have these symptoms to this or that degree, but the U.S. of A has a real Narcissus thing going on with itself that other’s even find inspiring. Humans are nuts.

    How Come “discovery” Made The LiSt?

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    • Author
      Scarlett 2 years ago

      @luftballooneyegouge I am referring to the way we came here and took over, the fact that “‘America” even exists? is that our greatest shame?

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      • luftballooneyegouge 2 years ago

        @Scarlett
        Oh, Conquest!
        It’s all about making a better life for those you love,
        by any and all means possible.
        ….veal

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @Scarlett
        I think we would benefit as a society from dialing back the [white] shame a bit.

        Let’s remember that the native tribes that we took it over from, themselves took it away from others before them. And so on.

        I’m not trying to reframe it as a “nice” process.

        I’m just pointing out the dysfunction in overdoing the shame.

        It’s a lot like nitrous oxide in an engine. A little can really wake it up and get it moving. But too much will just burn the engine out and render it worthless.

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  5. griz 2 years ago

    I believe we can manufacture any “greatest shame” we might wish. Our society is currently over-dosing on “the feelings” this gives them. We say it’s a shame that slavery, racism or sexism still exists. Is it any less onerous that theft and deception and profiteering “”love”” still exist?? It’s like we lust to create “biggies” and then focus on them; perhaps thinking that a sharp enough “shame” focused on them will make for a brighter tomorrow — while myriads of other things of our manifest immaturity go unaddressed — but we increasing become weighted down with shame?

    A race grows, just as a child grows. Or at least it’s suppose to! So what is a child’s “greatest shame”, in their manifest immaturity? What “shame” would you wish to saddle them with and keep beating them down with, perhaps for their entire lifetime?

    So perhaps our “greatest shame”, is our zeal to climb up on self-righteous soap-boxes to heap enough shame on “the child” that is our race, until it utterly breaks them/us.

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    • Author
      Scarlett 2 years ago

      @griz I disagree. I think shame and guilt can be motivators to improve behavior. Shame is a feeling. I think it is important to exercise self honesty, so if we look at American society or any society as a collective self, I think it can be productive to look back on our “life” and realize that some things were a mistake, and allow ourselves to feel any feelings that we think of as “bad”, such as anger, guilt, shame, and use this to change things going forward.
      this does not mean we ignore positive aspects of self, but rather do an honest self-assessment.
      As I look at my own life, sure I have felt shame, and it is one of the motivators to correct my behavior.
      Is slavery a shame? You’re damn skippy it is, and actually, because our nation decided to effectively make up the notion of race, is why those who are identified as black continue to suffer today, enduring lower wages and other forms of discrimination. A damn shame, indeed!

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      • ladybarbara 2 years ago

        @Scarlett Feeling shame for one’s self in self assessing is a self motivator. However, it is not healthy to shame others, especially children, for being what they are, how they are, or feeling their own genuine feelings.

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      • Author
        Scarlett 2 years ago

        @ladybarbara wasn’t aware we were talking about anyone’s children. I do think shame is an okay emotion to consider how we do and don’t want to behave in life. for example, If someone steals from a homeless person, that is a shame.

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      • griz 1 year ago

        @Scarlett
        Shame can be a very effective beginning for us to self-correct. Like you, I have had this feeling and used it to self-correct. Both personally and interpersonally (socially).

        But it’s not something we can force upon others, at least not to lasting effect. And it is something we can wallow in, for the sake of the muddy stinky feelings it gives us!

        Is there such a thing as over doing a good thing? Or not moving on to the next step, because we like the feelings of the current step?

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  6. immortal_pirate 2 years ago

    The Democratic Party is the shame of the nation…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_a7dQXilCo

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    • Gina 2 years ago

      @immortal_pirate Southern Democrats started the KKK in 1865. The Democratic PARTY did not start the KKK. The KKK, white nationalists and neo-nazi’s support the Republican currently in office, Donald John Trump; and it is now the 21st century. Yes, the GOP was once a grand old party, but they switched their views and the side they decided to be on.

      So, really; what is your point of this?

      What do you think of Donald John Trump having these hate groups support him, and Donald John Trump calling torch bearing white men marching chanting, “blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us”…calling them, “Some are very fine people.” What do you have to say about that?

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina That is a very distorted view of history. The democratic party is still the party of plantation politics. The democrats run Detroit, Michigan, where blacks are killing blacks in record numbers. In fact, where ever democrats control local politics, crime is high and injustice is rampant.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @immortal_pirate Jesus Christ man. Can you answer my questions? I asked you, what do you think of the support Donald John Trump has of the hate groups mentioned, and calling them fine people? That is a fact, it’s on video coming out of their mouths and his mouth. Why are you so obstinate?

        I am not getting into you the issue of blacks killing blacks. White kill whites at record numbers too, but that is never mentioned. Answer my questions or quit conversing with me. Stick to the topic at hand, or you can’t because your daddy embarrasses you?

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina President Trump disavowed the KKK and white supremacists many times over, or does that not fit the liberal narrative? He doesn’t embarrass me whatsoever. He is the President and hopefully he will be so again in 2020.

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      • Gina 2 years ago

        @immortal_pirate How long did it take him to disavow them? He came out stronger against football players silent protests than his disavowment of any hate group that is supporting him. Goodbye pirate. I am done.

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      • immortal_pirate 2 years ago

        @Gina Have a nice day…

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  7. ladybarbara 2 years ago

    I can see what Weenis is saying. I remember my Grandma’s telling of how she and her mother were sold into slavery after the Modoc war of 1872 – 1873. My Grandma was only one year old, but her mother told her of the war and life before the war, when they lived in the dirt and lava tube caves. Water was rare and had to be carried from the Tule Lake, which was near Captain Jack’s Stronghold. Point is, life was hard in the tribal stronghold. They lived in the dirt and in the lava tubes.

    When the war was won by the U S Confederate Army, my family was rounded up and some were sent to an Oklahoma Reservation. Some were executed. Some were sent to the Klamath Falls, Oregon, reservation. However, my Great Grandmother and her child (my Grandma) were taken to the Mission in San Diego and sold as slaves to the Mission.

    Did they have to live in the dirt and caves anymore? — No. Did they have to wear rags anymore? — no. Did they have to sleep in cold conditions? — No. They were living in clean quarters and had regular meals. The water was clean. They were given work to do, feeding and caring for the pregnant nuns that lived out their pregnancy in the cellar. They were given proper clothing to wear. They were given a limited education. Then, my Great Grandmother had won the heart of a Priest and he left the Priesthood to marry her. Her life was a life of comfort.

    My Grandma was 9 years old and still a slave in the San Diego Mission when she was sold to Stephen T. Mather. He never married her, but she remained a slave indian squaw. He was already married with a family in the Eastern states. My Grandma gave birth to his 13 children. I think he already had 3 children by his wife in the East. Her life as a slave had a warm bed, a cozy bedroom, nice clothing, regular meals, and after she was purchased, she was sent to the Eastern states to be educated and lived as a student until she was 18 and returned to California to start raising her own family —- still an indian squaw and still unwed —– but OWNED by a respected gentleman.

    Sure, misbehaving, in those days, meant that beatings were issued, but it was also a way of life of any underling. Children knew discipline by a belt or switch. It was the way of life in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s.

    I got the story right from my Grandma’s tellings. I visited Captain Jack’s Stronghold and walked the trails. I sat in the carved out caves and lava tubes. I wouldn’t want to have to live like that. When Great Grandma and my Grandma were sold into slavery, their lives improved and they lived in more comfort than they had known before the Modoc War.

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