A person says they do not want their organs to be used to save lives after their death. Why is our responsibility to following their wishes greater than our responsibility to save kids who need hearts and livers?




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  1. Jear77 1 month ago

    The idea is that the “donor” should be a willing participant. Otherwise you might wnd up with a situation where you have people being killed in order to harvest their organs.

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    • ladybarbara 1 month ago

      @Jear77 Exactly right. Good answer.

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      Scarlett 1 month ago

      @Jear77 that sounds a lot like the argument against gay marriage, “you might wind up with people who want to marry animals.”

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      • Jear77 1 month ago

        @Scarlett not the same at all. If an evil bastard knew person x over here would save,their life (blood match), why wouldn’t s/he arrange for the other person’s death to get their organs?

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      • griz 1 month ago

        @Scarlett
        The current explosion of “non-traditional” genders should hold the caution that the jury is still out on just when these opened floodgates are going to be closed — if indeed they still can be. I’ve heard “non-practicing” pedophiles are wanting their place of public acceptance in the GBLTQQIPP etc acronym. And there’s even talk of “non-human” inclusivity :unamused: (If one identified as gender-alien, wouldn’t that make sex with humans like screwing the livestock?). In light of what’s already been accepted and applauded, can you really see it ending or even slowing down? Even a growing number of “G’s” are wondering when we’re going to pump the brakes.

        And there is a manifesting concern with the changing of “marriage” away from the traditional time-tested model. Women have intrinsic social value and identity just for having a uterus. Men don’t get the same just for having a penis. (In fact, it seems more and more a liability of late!).

        Men have to work, exercise competency over time in competitive and often risky ventures (all the things toxic femininity tries to shame out of the boys), to “earn” an extrinsic social value and identity. A man who doesn’t, is a proverbial worm. Even if he manages a pity or desperation screw from a woman willing to accept inferior genetic stock, what kind of genes — and upbringing — will the kids have?

        Traditional marriage — including hegemonic selection by women seeking “the best specimin”, in large part gave men the social value and identity they didn’t inherently have just for breathing. That made it something of immense value, in a way women seem unable or unwilling to understand. How can they, if their social value and identity is part and parcel of their biology?

        So traditional marriage was, over the thousands of years it’s existed in evolving form, helping address a uniquely male problem in a way beneficial for the man, the woman the children and society.

        Now I hadn’t heard of anyone who saw this coming: but it turns out the social value and identity awarded a man by marriage was a zero-sum equation. What the gays gained, the straight men lost through a watering-down of the institution of marriage. It took something that was of considerable social value away from a productive process, and awarded it to an unproductive one.

        Is it any wonder so many men are going MGTOW, giving up meaningful long-term relationship (to the chagrin of a growing number of women!) suffering increased depression societal drop-out and suicide rates because they feel they have no social value or identity . . . and perhaps even reaching for easier and more notorious ways to establish an identity? And perhaps combining this with a lashing out at a group-identity they feel has somehow wronged them? An atrocity with a gun or a vehicle in a crowded public place does garner one an indelible lasting reputation in very short order.

        Who saw that coming?

        When are we going to abandon this arrogance that has us thinking we are clever enough to monkey with and reconstruct elements of an insanely-complex social equation that has evolved and been fine-tuned through thousands and in some cases 100’s of millions of years — just so we can virtue-signal?

        Especially when we’re exercising such ignorance of history, ideological possession, denial of facts — and even the un-scientific creation of “alternate facts”!

        Because how does it go? “Science is just the unintelligible noise of the Evil Patriarchy trying to retain power”?

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      • Jear77 1 month ago

        @griz you lost the point of the OP’s question in regards to organ donation, and not only didn’t rouch on it at all, you went off roading with the truck you drive, running over pedestrians and wildlife in the process!

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      • griz 1 month ago

        @Jear77
        I thought “liking” your response indicated I had little else to add on that topic. Though I did expand on it a bit farther down in the thread.

        Just a reminder that I look upon the questions here as gateways to discussion with people unto greater personal development; and not just an excuse to air opinion and receive a score!

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz maybe you oughtn’t to avoid confusion

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        It helps to remember that none of my responses (except perhaps the humorous ones!) are “stand-alone”. I go to great efforts to make sure they are all integrated and as coherent a supposition/theory/assertion as I can manage.

        And from experience I would observe that the closer one gets to the great Truths in life, the the more often and the more effortlessly this happens.

        This is not me being special or “wise” in and of myself, in that anyone can follow this path who wishes and makes the proper sacifices. It’s more like the greater effort taken to get out of the darker selfish aspects of life, the more the light shines.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz a theory of everything?

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        Many disciplines crave a “Grand Unification Theory”.

        A functional one; not a simplistic one fabricated from motivated reasoning.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz yours boils down to a single word / concept: god.

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        The ancient God-concept is simply . . . Life. (indeed, that is one of the key appellations of both God and Christ).

        So yes: LIFE is kind of a Grand Unification Theory. For through it, the entire panoply of existence AND cognitive awareness of it can be classified according to Life and anti-Life.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz forget not “life” as you call jt CREATED anti-life (i.e. god created Satan, knowing full well what he would become) so the aspect must have originated with this thing you call life. The idea therein is contained within the very concept of omniscience.

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  2. ladybarbara 1 month ago

    It is out of respect for the person who DOESN’T WANT to be a donor. That person has reasons why he/she doesn’t want ANY PART of his/her body to live on after their death. Once they make it known to their loved ones, those loved ones will also want the dead to be respected.

    Some Christians believe that Christ will return and literally raise the dead from their graves. So, the perspective “donor” may want to be absolutely WHOLE within their grave. It may sound silly to you, but they believe it and their beliefs are to be respected. They fear being raised from the dead without eyes, liver, heart, and lungs. The idea of a second life would be horrible without their vital organs. That fear may seem irrational to others, but the soon-to-be-dead thinks of it as a real nightmare.

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    • griz 1 month ago

      @ladybarbara
      Hmm. That’s an interesting “Christian” perspective I’ve not heard, despite sojourning through more variants of it than most people care to in a lifetime. That sounds more like Mormonism.

      I wouldn’t dismiss that some professing Christians might hold to it. Heck, the Westborough Baptists hold that God, who is personified as “Love” . . . “hates fags”! So people can be mistaken about a lot of things.

      I would point out Scriptural precedent for the allegorical lopping off or gouging out an offending body part (eye, arm) for it is better to enter paradise missing them, than enter into damnation as a whole person.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz theologians have debunked the literal interpretation of that verse because there was a point in church history where people cut their body parts off so as to not be tempted. Most people would be missing parts if it should be.

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        I did say “allegorical”!

        Your points would improve if you could get out of the religious headspace you seem stuck in.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz how is it allegory to remove body parts from a corpse?

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        How be, you tell me. You say you’ve spent a lot of time in Bible studies.

        What class of things might be worth sacrificing a limb for? Or an eye? In mythology what did Odin or Horus sacrifice and eye for . . . And count it a fair price?

        Choose your level of analysis carefully. If it’s just catering to anger bitterness or resentfulness (aspects of the flesh), it’s not nearly sophisticated enough to understand the allegory.

        Now bringing aspects of the “count the cost” theme. Aspects of the suitable sacrifice theme.

        To sacrifice a few hours a week to religious pursuit and expect superpowers to leverage reality to our favor, is a class of sacrifice and expectation that is almost guaranteed to breed bitterness and resentment.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz nothing is worth giving up a limb for, nor an eye. Though I would gladly never hear again if in return i could have perfect vision(i.e. no glasses) in return. Even if i saw perfectly, i could claim i didn’t understand what’s being said, not have to worry about being woken up by an alarm.

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        How about saving your life from the spread of gangrene or ebola?

        And allegedly Odin sacrificed his eye for a wisdom that brought peace to the 9 realms. And Horus’ sacrifice is what revivified the dead and corrupt “society” so it lived on in peae and productivity for yet another era.

        Remember what I said about “level of analysis”. If everything is about the self, any analysis will be simplistic, short-term, and insufficient to break out of the trap of ego (flesh) where the only reward possible, is death and dissolution.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz nah. Better off dead. No more problems at that point. And if qe all,die… why are,we worried about that fate?

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        A life so lacking in meaning is already somewhere hellish.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz a life devoted to a deity that knew every single horrid thing that would ever, could ever take place and still decided to “pull the trigger” and set existence into motion is even MORE hellish!

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        The “Deity”, is something akin to “Life”.

        If we WANT to utilize the life we’ve been given to seek and hold and worship and INCREASE “the hellish”, we have the freedom to.

        But as cost.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz maybe if it were oblivious to the hurt it was creating, it might be understandable, forgivable. But every evil deed was fully known, understood, and yet unstopped. The creation of everything was premeditated.That is what makes it so bad. Far better to create nothing than knowingly create pain.

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        That we hurt is no reason to embrace anti-Life.

        That responsibility is difficult is no reason to flee it.

        The knowledge of both good and evil is no excuse to embrace and magnify the evil in and around us.

        And the fact that it’s easy in the short run to blame others for the situations we find ourselves in, is no justification for doing so.

        We don’t have to grow the hell up and take adult responsibility for the existential reality that is us. But the cost of not doing so is an outpost of hellishness both in and around us.

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      • Jear77 4 weeks ago

        @griz that we hurt means that a god who knew and did not stop it for all his omniscience and omnipotence is as guilty as the one(s) who did the acts. And because no one else will or can dare say these things, it’s up to me. Free will is absolutely nothing in comparison to these things.

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      • griz 4 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        That is to crave the toxic mother who devours any possibility for competency in her children just so everything will be “nice” in the moment.

        It is the bulldozer parent who removes all obstacles so their child will never have to strain, stumble, learn to heal, be resilient.

        Such a parent hates their child and sabotages their future, for the sake of the parent’s own smooth emotional passage in the moment.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz a god who allows such things to exist, knew he had the power, the authority, the and the obligation to stop them, or cause them not to exist in the first place is infinitely more toxic than this idea of the toxic mother. God supposedly interfered in history with his people, the Israelites, his son and later the creation/ changing of Saul/ Paul. So to say god can’t interfere in history is completely wrong.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        There’s an idea that’s who we feel we need to blame our problems on is related to how much personal responsibility we are taking for ourselves within manifest reality.

        Or not taking for ourselves!

        The idea is that it’s a blame game/ shifting of blame. And the more that we both consciously and subconsciously know we are not being accountable for ourselves, the larger a target we need to shift blame upon.

        Are we blaming a friend or family? (A bit of blame-shifting). Parents? (That’s a biggie). 50% of the world? (Ie, sexism). An entire cultural group? (Size varies). Capitalism? (Perhaps 65% of the world). Whites? (About 77% of the world).
        Manifest existential reality? (100%).

        The alleged Author of manifest existential reality? (Infinity and then some!!!)

        Who we want to blame for our problems can be a Cosmic level wake-up (or grow-up) call

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz remember, science has you wrong at the concept of manifest reality. In the realm of quantum physics every possible thing is mannifest simultaneously. What we experience could quite possibly be one of an infinite number of unique universes, all of which are separated by the difference of a single point. And each of *those* are also separated by a sungle point, ad infinitum. One where you’re both a woman and an athiest. One where i’ve experienced such good fortune, i attribute it sll to god.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        A lot of quantum physics is still theoretical as in, we have few “applied” instances we can apply.

        Give an example of how you apply this “dictum” in your everyday life.

        Personally, I’m grateful I didn’t have to breach alternate dimensions to find the love, joy, peace and purpose greater than self that is the brilliance of Life, and Life more abundantly!

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz you can yourself in your job, literally every moment you’re behind the wheel, options for other universes open up. Every time you put on the breaks of the truck you drive, or turn… another universe opens where you’re a split second too late and kill the person/ people in the car front of you! Or you’re too eaky, but want to be safe, and the delay causes another driver life altering consequences. Maybe they lose a job, or have severe medical problems due to not being able to get to the hospital.This happens literally dozens, if not hundreds of times daily. Or you never considered these types of consequences for something so simple?

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        That’s less the quantum physics of alternate dimensions, then simply the existential nature of self conscious awareness.

        And the free choice we exercise with in it.

        When we choose to speak through in Creative words unto actions within it (the classic Christian Logos by which all things came into existence) . . . It gets better.

        And when our speech is untruthful unto inaction, it gets more hellish.

        Either this is not nearly as complicated as you are wanting to make it . . . Or the Bible is a brilliant prequel to quantum physics!

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz the bible talks nothing about actions opening parallel dimensions. Ot knows nothing of the concept.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        Read it again.
        Leave the religious mind behind.

        It gives brilliant insights into our creative freedom to give rise to all kinds of possible futures, both heavenly and hellish.

        And how to deal with whatever darkness may arise through the poor choices of self or others.

        AND out of a time when they could barely understand such things, let alone articulate beyond rules or a set of “wisdoms”.

        If one has chosen a path (A dimension) where one does not automatically have to hate it, it’s there to be seen.
        (The whole idea of unfathomable treasure, hidden in plain sight.)

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz book, chapter, verse? And the *exact term* parallel universes…

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        all
        of
        it.

        The idea is that you have to read it properly . . . . ie, not as part of a religious game; and with the intent to “see what it there” and not just to bolster whatever baggage or ideologies one espouses.

        Did you really think the format of prayer,worship, meditation, sacrifice was there just for show? Even if “the ancients” could not fully articulate it, there is a wisdom to the process that just won’t be rendered by “religious process”.

        That is why the Scribes and Pharisees just didn’t get it . . . despite having their heads in the Scripture all the time.

        Are you telling me that you REALLY didn’t notice this??

        Go back and look at the concepts presented as something as more than just a religious exercise with the purpose of giving you all you desire with no effort beyond “religious performance”.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz once again, to what end? To the relationship with a being who I don’t want to know because 90% of it’s assinine, outdated, and unscientific? Hard pass.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        On the chance you are not omniscient and perfect, and might have missed what was right there to see once the religious crap was dropped!

        If you partook of Dr. Peterson’s lectures on Genesis as you said, how can you fail to see the compelling and strong psychological tie-ins to something so ancient they had no idea what science even was!?

        The idea of sacrifice (giving up something of value in the now in bargain with the future) is landmark — even if not articulated in today’s scientific jargon. Bio- and psycho-evolutionists consider this one of THE key realizations that differentiated us from the rest of the animals.

        And ancients were grappling with this (in a way few moderns could!) enacting “laws” trying to instantiate it into social behavior and writing narratives trying to articulate it to future generations?
        That’s more brilliant than assinine. And “scientific hadn’t even been “invented” yet. That’s like dismissing someone’s insights as worthless because they hailed from an era before i-phones and the internet.
        And the charge of “outdated” is laughable. Same species; same issues; same effective responses.

        Your response seems lifted word for word from some skeptic’s website, with no thought as to what is being parroted.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz you still don’t seem to get the point… if you create something knowing full well it’s not going to be perfect, you have zero right for punishing them and every single thing thereafter for not being so. This concept is the stupidest thing i have ever heard but it is literally what original sin boils down to. And to add a needless sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin when the concept of sin should never have been created in the first place is bad planning, knowing that the creation was flawed/ going to sin. And even if the concept of sin needed to be a thing, forgiveness should be granted as a matter of course, no questions asked, as the beings that were created were flawed, or at least guaranteed to sin (remember omniscience). To add insult to injury, mankind was most likely mortal to begin with (at least according to that lecture series), or if not, permanent immortality was never “in the cards”. And if it’s not outdated, why don’t we go back to old testament using all the laws therein for today? I’ll tell you why: It’s the exact same idea as hard line Islamist militants.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        And you still don’t seem to get the point that natural consequence for action freely taken, isn’t rightfully defined as “punishment”. It’s more akin to “freedom”.

        I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone so zealous to whip themselves with the religion they are working so hard to leave behind.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz ok, so…if there is a god, afterlife, i can say ‘no thanks’ to hell/ the consequences of sin and enter heaven, just keep to myself for all eternity? If it’s truly freedom, it should extend up to and including that. If not, it’s not truly freedom.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        It’s hard to believe you spent as much time in a church as you say and still have so little awareness of how the whole paradigm of freedom from sin works.

        We’ve talked before about the difference between true freedom, and motivated irresponsibility (ie, absolutely no consequences for actions).

        Even when you sin and are forgiven, there is consequence. Allegedly not before God, if it’s genuine and not just “getting the slate clean so you can dirty it again in the same way”.
        But your own psychology knows when we’ve “missed the mark”.

        And it knows when we’re using and taking advantage of graces and mercies offered.

        And the psyche becomes increasingly toxified into existing more and more on just resentment, bitterness, and mistruth. These displace all good things in a person’s life, isolationism looms, atrocities result.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz why shouldn’t we take advantage where we can, how we can? Guess what… this world is hell as it is, so if if we do, we shouldn’t feel the slightest bit guilty about it because we were put here. If we don’t, we’re foolish imo.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        We shouldn’t, because it damages our psyche in the long run. And this is foolishness, under the very shallow guise of it being wise.

        Even the ancients that wrote the Bible knew this (and even the ancient Egyptians did) . . . but not always at the articulation level. It was more rules, cautions, stories, and rituals that attempted to instantiate “winning” behavior even if they could not articulate the process as we are learning to through psychology.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz ok… so you’ve never (not even in a previous life) done ANY of the following: called off sick, said there was an emergency situation when there was none? You just needed to take care of something else that day. You’ve never studied a rulebook to find loopholes for a game/ sport… only later to take advantage of such? You’ve not asked for more time to do something, when in doing so, you’re technically getting one “over on” the system, to ensure you could do what you’re asked to do right, when no one else (or at least few others) get that extra time? Even disability counts forthis purpose. You’ve never hired an accountant or tax professional to do your taxes? (y’know it’s their job to find ways for you not to pay as much on your taxes). You’ve never covered for a friend when asked to lie and say you’ve been with them… or asked someone the same? Have you ever been asled to lie for an employer? These are the types of things people do on a daily basis and most have no problems with. If you haven’t done these sort of things, it just goes to show you how limited you are.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        I have because I’m human. (reason, NOT excuse).
        But each time I did it spun off consequence — both in the “outside” world AND internally. And this needs to be measured not just short-term but long-term as well. Very rarely, to good effect. Some of the times to no apparent effect, ie, I “got away with it” — at least to date (though one has to sort of keep track of the “lies” and “[mis]use of advantage so they don’t sneak upon you). But most times to less than optimal long-term effect.

        And if they poison my psyche over time, that’s the worst of all prolonged (and even cumulative) effects.
        You yourself are likely experiencing this kind of magnifying effect, driving you to all kinds of behaviors that are more protective of where one finds the self, than true to self.

        I think 6 y.o. Craig would be approving (perhaps even proud) of the man I am today.
        Would the 6 y.o. Jear?

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz undoubtedly!

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        So long as you’re sure he would be proud and approve of where Jear finds himself today. (But you might want to re-examine that!).

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz you really don’t know what’s going on, or at least not the full extent, as out of necessity i’ve needed to keep my answers brief. To put it briefly, the 6 year old me wouldn’t want anything to do with a god who is making / allowing his mother suffer so. Something weird is going on with her diabetes, in addition to the cellulitis, which isn’t healing properly. She sat unable to move, incoherent for 4 hours last night.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        I too saw my mother suffer horribly; but at 6 a child rarely thinks in agenda or in terms of revenge against existence; and would probably think them quite uncool. (Unless someone is actively feeding them concentrated toxins).

        Remember, I worked with hundreds (possibly thousands?) of children of this age for an extended period of time in camps both for the underprivileged and the over-privileged. Corruption by darkness in children of our era really didn’t get a foothold in many up to about age 9 — when concerted inroads could start to be noticed.

        Again, extreme evil depredation can accelerate this; but we’re talking “extreme” in the category of criminal.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz i had a quite damaged childhood.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        Perhaps part of why we relate?

        But my yesterday has been mostly denied the power to steal any more of my tomorrows.

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      • Jear77 3 weeks ago

        @griz you really don’t know what’s going on, or at least not the full extent, as out of necessity i’ve needed to keep my answers brief. To put it briefly, the 6 year old me wouldn’t want anything to do with a god who is making / allowing his mother suffer so. Something weird is going on with her diabetes, in addition to the cellulitis, which isn’t healing properly. She sat unable to move, incoherent for 4 hours last night, as well as feeling like her legs were unable to support her.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @Jear77
        If you are positive that is what he would think, there’s not much more to say on that.

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  3. five2one 1 month ago

    Why should the State have control even over our dead bodies?

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      Scarlett 1 month ago

      @five2one this is not about the State. You seem to vacillate on your political ideas, anyway. This is about ethics. Is it okay to let multiple people who are sick and suffering to go on and be sick and suffering in lieu of a dead persons wishes.

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      • five2one 1 month ago

        @Scarlett Keyword, ‘seem’. Sadly, I can not express my true feelings and thoughts in ways I see others do. They come out as ciphers that bend to the environment.

        The entire system is corrupt. Everything. Really, deeply corrupt. Including suffering and death. All of that is tied together. What we think, what we believe influences reality. And we can not believe much, right now.

        Bandaids are what you have to use, but not everyone is okay with allowing their dead body to be desecrated– even if it saves a life. I know that does not seem to make sense.

        So, if they really do not feel right doing so, they should not have to.

        Nobody should be forced to desecrate what they innately believe is sacred.

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      • griz 1 month ago

        @Scarlett
        Who should we empower to make that call; and under what if any restraints?

        We seem to encounter fewer social and ethical problems when we respect the sanctity of the individual (the principle Western Society is based upon) . . . than when we think we know what’s best for everyone involved. (And with just feelings as a guide?)

        Trying to re-construct society away from a model that has proven to be the best to-date — especially with delusions of grandeur housed in some enlightened policy or ideology or “feeling” — is dodgy business that has yet to yield anything good.

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    • griz 1 month ago

      @five2one
      Why would/should another person, even a loved one, have control over our dead body for their gain?

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      • five2one 3 weeks ago

        @griz ‘Why would/should another person, even a loved one, have control over our dead body for their gain?’

        That, is actually a very difficult question.

        The martyrs gave their lives for others to have life, but that did not give anyone control over their dead bodies.

        Some have no issue with giving their organs to others, in case they die. I do, with my own self. But, I have a deep, visceral feeling about that, and am not other people’s masters. Maybe it is just me.

        In general, otherwise, I believe that we can certainly harm ourselves to help others, and greater goods outweigh lesser evils. But, on some matters, I have a visceral sense about things, and this is one of those matters.

        However, I do not see a reason for me to project my own sense about matters on other people, in this regard.

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      • griz 3 weeks ago

        @five2one
        From the early chapters of Genesis there is the notion of the sanctity of the individual; being “created in God’s image”. And that means a duty to respect this.

        This has been instantiated in every culture that has been exposed to Judeo-Christianity throughout the ages: and was finally, officially articulated in the US Constitution and law.

        We do not know exactly where the division is between the physical shell of a person we interact with and their very spirit, made in God’s image, is. But the physical shell was akin to a direct gift from God to that person. And I think we may err greatly to presume this very personal gift to another to be just raw material to use for our gratification (economically, or for virtue-signaling).
        Our own self/shell, yes.

        But there’s something akin to a “breach of trust” when we presume “controlling ownership” over another person, living or dead.

        (With a provision that monstrous situations may sometimes justify extreme solutions)

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      • five2one 3 weeks ago

        @griz I totally agree…

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  4. luftballooneyegouge 1 month ago

    Life is only precious in the womb. Post-birth, saving their lives comes in second behind being governed by fears & preconceived notions.

    Y’know,… ’cause “death panels”…..

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    • Author
      Scarlett 1 month ago

      @luftballooneyegouge what is the criteria for being a person? Is a dead person still a person? if they are not, whose wishes are we honoring?

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      • luftballooneyegouge 1 month ago

        @Scarlett
        All this Zombie-Shaming has got to stop!!!!

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      • griz 1 month ago

        @Scarlett
        What is your essence to others if not the memories related to the phenomena of your having been here.

        Are they real in an objective sense?

        Are you real in an objective sense? It is only because you are that you are worthy of right or consideration in Western Society.

        Do you become non-real the moment you pass on?

        This seems very slippery-slope ideology. Societies that lapse into this kind of thinking very quickly become atrocious.

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  5. griz 1 month ago

    It has to do with respect for and sanctity of the individual.

    And also how much we love them. Love between adults involves respecting their choices even if we don’t agree with them.

    I’m curious as to whether this is another exercise from the same authors?

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